427 Mystery Engine

[Dog427435]

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Verne

I am not sure, but I would imagine I got it when I went to Louis & Rex's garage (see 1st post)





I've said it before - I never throw anything away!!!!!
Glenn

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[Verne_Frantz]

"I've said it before - I never throw anything away!!!!!
Glenn"

Yeah, I try to adhere to that too. I've thrown things away that I've had for 25 years, thinking there's no reason to save it anymore.......then 2 weeks later something comes up and I need it!!!

Oh well.............

[Paul D]

How many "Mystery Engines" were built and how many are still known to exist?

[Verne_Frantz]

Paul,
The total number I've heard from a "reliable" source was 44, but I don't know where he got that number so I can't verify that. Nor do I know if that number includes the first MKII which was 396cid plus the MKIIs (stroked) to 427cid. I've spoken directly to Dick Keinath, who was the head engineer who designed it, and even he does not know how many were made in total. The design of that engine never really stopped until GM pulled the plug and told everyone their job was at risk if they did any more with that engine. So, there were several blocks and other parts that were still in a design and test loop. It's possible some of them got out the door too, so it's very difficult to determine a real total. I'm sure some of them were probably left there then scrapped when they turned the lights out.

I know of 6 that exist today. In the heyday of '63 when they appeared on Nascar tracks, Ford complained and Nascar forced Chevy to give 2 of them to Ford, but I don't know who got them, or if they've ever turned up. Once the higher-ups in Chevy put a ban on racing activity, the engines were to be returned. I'm guessing that's what happened to most of them, but a few got squirreled away...

Dick Keinath was an engineer ahead of his time then. He had ideas to further test the combustion efficiency of each cylinder by analyzing the exhaust gas, but that technology wasn't invented yet. He had planned on compensating deficiencies by either changing individual port design or with variable cam timing for each cylinder or by variable spark timing (which also was not invented yet). He went on to head the team that developed the MKIV, which we all know turned out pretty good!

Verne

[Dog427435]

Verne

From what I've read Holman Moody were the ones who filed a protest and made NASCAR stick to the no experimental engine rule. Engines had to be available to the public, and NASCAR made Chevrolet sell two of those engines to Ford. These two engines were picked up at Smokey's by Holman Moody.
Bubba Farr had a '63 with a 409 in it, and he said "If you're giving Holman Moody two of 'em, I ought to get one." They let him have an engine, but after the race, they took it back. Holman Moody never returned their engines.
There were four 427's in the Daytona 500 - Johnny Rutherford driving for Smokey, Junior Johnson driving for Ray Fox, Rex White and Bubba Farr.
Rex White had been testing the new engine at the Proving Grounds in Mesa since late '62 and had accumulated several blown engines and many parts which he brought to Daytona. Chevrolet didn't usually let their test cars out of the Proving Grounds, but the car that Smokey ran was actually the test car from Mesa that White had built. Smokey's relationship with Bunkie Knudsen got it out the back door.
Rex White continued to run his 427 through the Memorial Day World 600 at Charlotte, then abandoned it due to a lack of parts. They had to reuse everything, including head gaskets! I don't know how long Smokey or Ray Fox ran theirs.

Glenn

[Verne_Frantz]

Yes, now that you remind me, all that is in Smokey's 3 volume book set. Interesting reading... He was pretty Pi--ed that he had to let 2 of them go to F--D!!!

Verne
PS: J. Johnson was the last to run one until the spares ran out. Water pumps were a big reason for a lot of DNFs. And valve train breakage was also a big problem. It's funny when you look back.....the valve train was also the main weak link on all the early MKIVs. Those push rods just didn't like going sideways! (not to mention weak rockers)

[ORIGLS6]

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Yeah, I try to adhere to that too. I've thrown things away that I've had for 25 years, thinking there's no reason to save it anymore.......then 2 weeks later something comes up and I need it!!!

Oh well.............

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So what did we learn?

[SS427]

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Yeah, I try to adhere to that too. I've thrown things away that I've had for 25 years, thinking there's no reason to save it anymore.......then 2 weeks later something comes up and I need it!!!

Oh well.............

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So what did we learn?




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I know that I learned that when I get to help Cumby clean his garage and basement only God knows what kinds of neat things we are going to find because he has practiced this all his life.
Rick

[PeteLeathersac]

Your pics are always truly amazing dog!.

I seem to recall somewhere in the past reading that Ford or HM sold one or both the engines back when spares where so hard to get...anyone else remember this and is it BS maybe even started by Ford?.

I was looking earlier today on eBay at a supposed Mystery motor intake..type 'O' casting and all.. Cool piece if real and he notes he has induction system parts too...can't say I care for some of the other stuff he deals in though!.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/63-chevy-...sspagenameZWDVW

~ Pete

[1967Z28]

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[b]Junior Johnson's factory backed "Mystery Engine" Chevy

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That's G.C. Spencer in the second Ray Fox prepared Impala behind Junior Johnson. In all, there were five Mystery Motor Impalas in the '63 Daytona 500. Thanks again for posting these pics, Dog. They are awesome.

-Jon