Baldwin Motion Documentation

[rbernat]

copo,
the question is do these cars qualify as b/m cars.yes they do.they were purchased and modified thru baldwin/motion before changing ownership.not modified at a later date.their collectable value would be higher than a normal 396/375 or z-28 car and also be given a motion verification form from rosen.

[rbernat]

sixtiesmuscle
i dont think you understood my statement.at this time many cars have been purchased with incorrect engines.without any clues(emblems,paperwork,ect)would your first impression be that this is a b/m car or a car hot-rodded in the past.there is no evidence on the cowl tag and if your lucky you might find a build sheet.many cars have been restored to dealer original only to find out somewhere down the line that it was originally a b/m car.

[sixtiesmuscle]

I hear you! It seemed like you were playing down the value of B/M cars as has been the case in this subject post. It would be great if Mr. Motion was more cooperative, and supplied more paperwork when his price was paid, but we don't control that.In my opinion, that should not lessen the value, or significance of Baldwin Motion 427/454 "transplant" cars. As TRUE supercar fans, why do we have to compare the value or importance of any of them? They're all great aren't they? A "Yenko guy" will always think they are worth more, and a "Motion guy" will think the opposite. In the end, they will always be worth what the owner is willing to sell it for, and the buyer is willing to pay. Thanks for the clarification rbernat.

[COPO]

I think we are all pretty much saying the same thing. That is, a car sold new through Baldwin Chev. w/Motion mods would be a B/M car. A car modified by Motion AFTER purchase would not have as high of a collectible value and would not be considered a B/M car. I just stated, to me personally, a non-phase III car that had primarily cosmetic changes would not be worth more even if it was a B/M car.

There seems to be very little written information on these cars, which I assume is primarily due to Mr Motion's generally uncooperative personality. I'd really like to see a thoroughly researched detailed book about both the history of the Yenko's and BM cars with some nice detailed color pictures and production info. Alan Colvin where are you?

[ed427vette]

COPO,
I 100% agree with you. If 71 Camaro was invoiced through Baldwin Chevrolet, then sent over to Motion just to have a L88 hood dropped on and painted, it would "qualify" as a B/M car. However, this is not a car that should be selling for $60,000 and I beleive most would agree. When looked at from this point of view, its conceivable that 500 cars were B/M built cars. However, 500 phase III and/or transplant engine cars is hard to beleive but not totally impossible. Joel was still making 454 Camaros in 1975. I'm not sure when the EPA stopped the Baldwin chevy connection, but even if it was in 74 and he started in 67 then that is 8 years of cars.

[whitetop]

Hello Rat Pack, (See Rat Packs thread above)
Found an original car feature on the white '69 Motion 427 Camaro race car you talked about. Chevy Action, January '75. Article said car sold to Chuck Hamilton who owned the Millington Pit Stop in Millington Tenn. Car was all white with Mr. H on doors. Car had Weiand Tunnel ram, Cragar Super Tricks, large Chrysler type hood box scoop (molded to the cowl hood), lakewood traction bars, finned rearend cover, AND a picture of the Moroso cable drive tach in the ashtray!! Front bumper was white. Article said the car used Moroso fiberglass and car was built by Motion Performance. I also have this issue on Ebay at this time.
whitetop

That was the white car he owned also. He showed that magazine article to me when I was looking at the black car to buy. Both cars were at his house then but the lettering on the doors was no longer there, just a few sponsor decals....Rat Pack......

[whitetop]

Ratpack;

I just read th article, it does not say the car was built by Motion. It only says the engine came from Motion, a Phase III 427 ZL/X Competition engine. I do not think this car was built in '69. The article refers to the car as being "fresh" and still not all the bugs worked out. Also: Cragar Super Tricks were not introduced to the public until early 1972.
Grumpy Jenkins and Dick Landy were given the first set of frontrunners in late '71. Grumpu first used them on his Vega and Landy on his Challenger. The rears did not come out until later '72.
Also the Weiand intake. That "second generation" updated style did not come out until late 1973 early '74. Hope this info helps.
whitetop