1965 COPO 9719 Chevelle 300

[JoeC]

I see people on-line questioning the 1965 COPO 9719 Chevelle 300 at MCACN.
Nothing wrong with asking questions as this 396 L-78 is not a Z-16 and is very unusual.
Questions need answers

Did some research on the 1965 Chevelle KAN trim tags

I found special order trim tags on Yenko cars starting back in the 1980s.
It took me a long time to collect trim tags back then to compare Yenko tags to the regular production tags.

I did the same process on the 1965 COPO 9719 Chevelle 300. It only took a short time to find trim tags on-line.
The 1965 Chevelle KAN tags use the numbered groups 2 to 5 option code fields.
The first tag is from the COPO 9719 and has what looks like a special order number in the group 5 field.
The second tag is from a Z-16 and has a "M" in the group 4 field. The "M' code is known on Z-16s.
The 3rd tag is from a regular 1965 Chevelle and has a "W" in the group 5 field (seat belt code).

I have not seen any other tags with the number like the 1965 COPO 9719 Chevelle and I was able to find a lot of 1965 KAN tags.

(Thanks to the "Chevelle Stuff" web site for the trim tags)

[jeffschevelle]

The black 65 300 post COPO 396/425 car is absolutely real. There is no question about it. In my opinion, for whatever that is worth.

It is documented by Central Office typed window sticker, official internal GM production documents provided by Jim Wangers, and a Tonawanda work order for the engine.

The window sticker was photographed by Mark Meekins in the late 80's or early 90's when no one knew what the COPO number was or what that four-digit number's presence on the window sticker meant, and long before the GM documents had been provided by Mr. Wangers. Would be hard to take a wild guess at the COPO number and get it right on a fake window sticker before you had the official documents that were provided by Mr. Wangers.

The person in possession of the Tonawanda work order has had it for many decades. It has the COPO number right at the top. When he showed it to me he did not even know that there was a window sticker for the car, or that Mr. Wangers had provided the owner of the car GM production documents verifying the COPO number. Again, pretty hard to fake.

The Tonawanda work order specifies to build Engine Assm. 3870359 (which is the 65 full size car L78 engine part number) with the following modifications:

- Eliminate RH manifold # 3879898 (which is the full size car L78 RH exhaust manifold part number), and substitute manifold # 3879890 (which is the Chevelle L37 RH exhaust manifold part number).

- Eliminate LH manifold # 3856301 (which is the full size car L78 LH exhaust manifold part number), and substitute manifold # 3869925 (which is the Chevelle L37 LH exhaust manifold part number).

- Eliminate oil pan # 3871282 (which is the full size car L78 oil pan), and substitute oil pan # 3872762 (which is the Chevelle L37 oil pan).

That's why it is correct for the COPO car to have orange Impala valve covers rather than chrome Z16 valve covers, because they were not instructed to change those at Tonawanda.

And you will not find the RH Z16 exhaust manifold part number in any parts book, because it was never published there (unlike the LH manifold, the p/n for the RH manifold is different from the casting number because of the choke heat transfer tube being part of the "assembled" part which was not part of the raw casting). That number was only published in a special parts list sent to each dealer who delivered a Z16 new. And the person with the work order did not have that list when he showed me the document - I pulled it up from saved documents on my phone to verify that that number was in fact the Z16 manifold part number. So again, pretty hard for him to fake that document and get that part number correct when he did not know what that number was.

In addition, Mark Meekins took hundreds of photos of the car in its then unrestored state long before anyone (even the owner) knew for sure exactly what it was. At that time it still had the following original and unrestored parts that were ONLY used in Z16's and the COPO car: radiator; fan shroud; bolt-on steering column lower flange; 11" front brakes with special spindles and backing plates; 1-1/16 front sway bar (it is different from later F41 bars); five riveted 14x6 wheels with Chevelle offset, along with the original unused gold line spare tire; and boxed 1965 "convertible" style frame with the Z16 factory modifications to the front cross member to accept a big block and allow for removal of the starter without jacking up the engine. And Mark found the partial VIN of the car stamped on that boxed frame, confirming its originality to the car.

In short, while I am typically as much or more skeptical than anybody about claims of one-off special-built cars that defy all production logic, I am 100% confident without a shadow of a doubt that this car was built under a COPO order with an L78 engine, and a complete Z16 spec chassis, from the factory.

[jeffschevelle]

I said Wangers, but it might have been Jim Mattison ... GM historical royalty, either way!

[Xplantdad]

Amazing info Jeff !

[fsc66]

Re: COPO 9719 document pic:

[flyingn]

Jeff, great info. And it was really nice to meet you at Mcacn this year. I was the guy talking to you on move in day about your z16’s. You know your z16’s 👍

Originally Posted by jeffschevelle

The black 65 300 post COPO 396/425 car is absolutely real. There is no question about it. In my opinion, for whatever that is worth.

It is documented by Central Office typed window sticker, official internal GM production documents provided by Jim Wangers, and a Tonawanda work order for the engine.

The window sticker was photographed by Mark Meekins in the late 80's or early 90's when no one knew what the COPO number was or what that four-digit number's presence on the window sticker meant, and long before the GM documents had been provided by Mr. Wangers. Would be hard to take a wild guess at the COPO number and get it right on a fake window sticker before you had the official documents that were provided by Mr. Wangers.

The person in possession of the Tonawanda work order has had it for many decades. It has the COPO number right at the top. When he showed it to me he did not even know that there was a window sticker for the car, or that Mr. Wangers had provided the owner of the car GM production documents verifying the COPO number. Again, pretty hard to fake.

The Tonawanda work order specifies to build Engine Assm. 3870359 (which is the 65 full size car L78 engine part number) with the following modifications:

- Eliminate RH manifold # 3879898 (which is the full size car L78 RH exhaust manifold part number), and substitute manifold # 3879890 (which is the Chevelle L37 RH exhaust manifold part number).

- Eliminate LH manifold # 3856301 (which is the full size car L78 LH exhaust manifold part number), and substitute manifold # 3869925 (which is the Chevelle L37 LH exhaust manifold part number).

- Eliminate oil pan # 3871282 (which is the full size car L78 oil pan), and substitute oil pan # 3872762 (which is the Chevelle L37 oil pan).

That's why it is correct for the COPO car to have orange Impala valve covers rather than chrome Z16 valve covers, because they were not instructed to change those at Tonawanda.

And you will not find the RH Z16 exhaust manifold part number in any parts book, because it was never published there (unlike the LH manifold, the p/n for the RH manifold is different from the casting number because of the choke heat transfer tube being part of the "assembled" part which was not part of the raw casting). That number was only published in a special parts list sent to each dealer who delivered a Z16 new. And the person with the work order did not have that list when he showed me the document - I pulled it up from saved documents on my phone to verify that that number was in fact the Z16 manifold part number. So again, pretty hard for him to fake that document and get that part number correct when he did not know what that number was.

In addition, Mark Meekins took hundreds of photos of the car in its then unrestored state long before anyone (even the owner) knew for sure exactly what it was. At that time it still had the following original and unrestored parts that were ONLY used in Z16's and the COPO car: radiator; fan shroud; bolt-on steering column lower flange; 11" front brakes with special spindles and backing plates; 1-1/16 front sway bar (it is different from later F41 bars); five riveted 14x6 wheels with Chevelle offset, along with the original unused gold line spare tire; and boxed 1965 "convertible" style frame with the Z16 factory modifications to the front cross member to accept a big block and allow for removal of the starter without jacking up the engine. And Mark found the partial VIN of the car stamped on that boxed frame, confirming its originality to the car.

In short, while I am typically as much or more skeptical than anybody about claims of one-off special-built cars that defy all production logic, I am 100% confident without a shadow of a doubt that this car was built under a COPO order with an L78 engine, and a complete Z16 spec chassis, from the factory.

[Charley Lillard]

That is why we keep Jeff "Chevelle Rainman" around.

[tom406]

Jeff Helms, I sincerely hope you find time and motivation to write a reference book and capture this '64-67 Chevelle and Z16 knowledge you've acquired. As always, thank you for sharing.

[big gear head]

Originally Posted by tom406

Jeff Helms, I sincerely hope you find time and motivation to write a reference book and capture this '64-67 Chevelle and Z16 knowledge you've acquired. As always, thank you for sharing.

I completely agree, please write a book.

[67since67]

Originally Posted by tom406

Jeff Helms, I sincerely hope you find time and motivation to write a reference book and capture this '64-67 Chevelle and Z16 knowledge you've acquired. As always, thank you for sharing.

I've been pressuring Jeff to write a book for years...