Barrett Jackson Las Vegas

[RamAirDave]

Les, my last post (which I'm guessing is the one you're referring) was in regards to TK's now-deleted post about the guy who makes and advertises making VIN plates.

[GMC_Typhoon]

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Early Vettes have a VIN tag that is screwed on with two phillips head. Is removing those screws to paint the car a crime? What happens when said painter removes the tag and loses it? I personally know of a car that that happened to. A new VIN tag was made by a company and it was reapplied to the car. What would you classify this car as.

2) I also know of a 65 post 442 that was sold with a hardtop VIN at Holt Auto Sales in Michigan. Cowl tag was right but VIN was wrong and had rusty round rivets holding it on. Car still exists and owner knows of the VIN issue. In his case the car has the wrong VIN and the wrong title. Should a car like this should be destroyed?

[/ QUOTE ]

On 1) You are not listening to the facts of this situation. Removing a VIN from a car and putting it back on THE SAME CAR is not a crime. The crime occurs when you put it ON A DIFFERENT CAR. As for the VIN lost by the body shop (which unfortunately happens too often) the owner has to go to DMV and get a state issued identification number for the lost VIN plate. The manufacture and sale of a Vehicle Identification Number is a crime. And there probably are guys that do it...and I imagine those guys are just waiting for that knock on the door in the middle of the night.

On example #2) that owner and the dealer have a big problem. That's a rebody and the owner doesn't know what the body's VIN is - it could be a donor or a stolen car from way back when. He should bring that car back to the dealer now and try to get his money back. The local law enforcement officers in that dealer's town would probably love to know about the transaction in the event he doesn't get his money refunded. (And he should tell them anyway if he does get his money back, just to stop it from happening again)

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
On 1) You are not listening to the facts of this situation. Removing a VIN from a car and putting it back on THE SAME CAR is not a crime. The crime occurs when you put it ON A DIFFERENT CAR.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect information..
It IS ILLEGAL in many/most/all States and Canadian Provinces..

Although common place, even jumping a Vin tag from an old dashpad to a new one on 'Cudas or like constructed vehicles where the Vin is attached to the pad is illegal..

These situations call for a State issued Vin although in some States and Provinces where there is a provision for it, having the delegated official be present when you do the swap is the only legal way around avoiding the State issued Vin when actually moving a tag or Vinned part in cases like the dashpad above or a collision repair where the part being replaced has a Vin on it..
It's not Ok just document the date you did it or just call them and tell them you're doing it!.

The same applies to the Dynacorn type body cars.. Regardless of what everyone likes to say/think/hope, these are supposed to get a State issued Vin too, not jump the tags from one to the other as there can never be a car left behind without an identity for one thing...even if it's destined for the scrap pile!.

Obviously nobody in the collector car world wants to call the officials or live by the rules as getting a State issued Vin seriously deflates the value of collector cars..
Think of a Hemi Cuda only needing a dashpad and what may happen if you do call!.

I've always wondered how an engine being swapped and a Vinned item itself fits into this part of the legislation also how anyone can legally restamp an engine w/ the Vin but that's another whole issue itself..

There's lots more grey areas like those deemed manufacturers having the Ok when dealing w/ some Vin related issues but again another whole area needing close scrutiny itself..

Here's a bit of reading on one States view of the subject...lots more online if you just look..

http://www.state.in.us/legislative/i.../ar18/ch8.html


~ Pete

--------------------
I like real cars best...the REAL real ones!

[njsteve]

You are quite correct, Sir.

I was attempting to simplify the explanation on the issue. But when it comes to statutory writings, there is no way to simplify it.

Think of the VIN as a landmine. Don't mess with it or bad things happen.

[MAX71Z-28]

Bill , The camaro was sold long ago. Original owner was in Montana and he went to California While he was in the Air Force. He told me he got stopped twice for glasspacks on the car. The Cop who was hassling him did not know what factory chambered exhaust were. So he sold it shortly after being pulled over and harrassed. He sold thecar in late 1970 or early 1971.

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

Not this story but a Related Artical in the paper today.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/news/1236958,5_1_WA23_LAVARR_S1.article



BY NICHOLAS ALAJAKIS [email protected]

WAUKEGAN -- On a day where they both pleaded not guilty to more than two dozen felonies, a mother and son business team from Wauconda was indicted on 29 additional charges.

A Lake County Grand Jury Wednesday afternoon indicted Katherine Laverdure, 81, and Ronald Laverdure, 56, on 29 counts of tampering with vehicle identification numbers.

Earlier in the day, the two owners of K Konstrution, 29693 N. Route 12, Wauconda, pleaded not guilty to charges stemming from a June raid on their business.

Illinois Secretary of State Police, Illinois State Police and Lake County State's Attorney Office raided K Konstrution on June 18 in an investigation stemming from falsified vehicle identification plates. At the business, which was owned by Katherine and operated by Ronald, authorities found a number of vehicles and tractors with falsified VIN numbers and registrations. Police also found a number of guns and cocaine.

On Wednesday, Ronald was arraigned on four counts of driving with a revoked license, 14 counts of unlawful possession of a weapon by a felon and one count of unlawful possession of a controlled substance.

Additionally, both Ronald and Katherine were arraigned on 25 counts related to forging vehicle identifications and titles. Not guilty pleas were entered on all counts.

As the arraignment hearing was going on before Associate Judge Christopher Stride, a grand jury was indicting the pair on 29 additional counts. According to prosecutor Suzanne Willett, all those charges stem from fake identification numbers on the company's construction equipment. Katherine and Ronald, who are both free on bond, are expected to be arraigned on the newest charges next week.

The investigation into the Laverdures was going on for quite some time, investigators said in June. Roughly 20 tractors and vehicles registered to K Konstruction or Ronald Laverdure with fraudulent identification plates were impounded at a heavy equipment auction in Morris, Ill.

Looks like they are serious about this stuff.

[Stefano]

"This car has been so artfully altered it even fooled a recognized camaro expert who inspected it."

Anyone can be a Victim of Fraud!

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
"This car has been so artfully altered it even fooled a recognized camaro expert who inspected it."

Anyone can be a Victim of Fraud!

[/ QUOTE ]

Reminds me of a Montreal F1 weekend about 20 years ago when one of the boys fell in love for the night..
He was ready to jump off the Cartier bridge when 'she' turned out to be Lola (nothing to do w/ racing cars of the same name)..


~ Pete

[Mark_C]

It didn't fool the person who inspected it. No one would have bought that car for 40K if they had seen all 3 pages of the report.