67 L78 Camaro convertible

SBR · #1 12-28-2008, 05:01 AM

I agree with Jerry, original engine to me means the motor that the car came down the line with. I guess someone can interpret that in another way but to me its a cut and dry case. What should be asked also is the stamping on the pad original too as many motors were decked when rebuilt and have since been and restamped.

TDW · #2 12-28-2008, 03:21 PM

Hey, I didn't come up with the term. I see it used, I answered a question as to what it meant.Case closed.

**Salvatore** · #3 12-28-2008, 05:45 PM

Seems like the use of the word "original" got watered down some. Born with came up basically around the hobby to take a stronger stand on what was the assembly line install on thess cars. Non car people use original with ease it seems. At least that is my take on it. "Born with" may be a stronger clarification in the eyes of the hobby?

Jerry@CHP · #4 12-28-2008, 08:08 PM

If I ever used "born with" in the court room, people would look at me like I just landed in from Mars. Is that like Born Free?

Kinda part of the word smithing that goes on in our hobby. BJ does a good job, went from car clones, the recreations to tribute cars.

Jerry

**Mr70** · #5 12-28-2008, 08:19 PM

How often are you in court room?
Maybe if "Born With" was more understood & only used where applies,you won't be called in as much.
As most have stated,to me those two lil words sum it all up & leave no wiggle room, unlike "Restoration Drivetrain".
Welcome to Mars..

Jerry@CHP · #6 12-28-2008, 08:41 PM

Probably four times in court this year and more than that last year. Getting back to basics asking a seller if a car has the original engine leaves no wiggle room for any seller. Sellers have been prosecuted for this.

Buyers usually call me after the purchase and that's when the trauma begins. Always better to do pre-inspections before a purchase.

The term "restoration drive" train has been around in the Corvette arena for a while and in use at the Camaro Nats and concours judging for a couple of years now.

Jerry

**Mr70** · #7 12-28-2008, 08:50 PM

I agree with that to a point Jerry,cause if a seller says quickly and soflty,"the vehicle has an original...",and not "the" or it's original,is when the lawyers & judges come into play.
Cars restored w/o their "born with",but rather use a period correct replacement engine,trans,rearend,etc. dated closely,are notorious for using "an original" or "restoration drivetrain" in their description.
Make a seller state "original born with" on paper,and watch the sweat drip off his brow as the buyer walks away and our courts become less crowded.

**tom406** · #8 01-06-2009, 05:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If I ever used "born with" in the court room, people would look at me like I just landed in from Mars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been to court a few times as an appraiser over the last 15 years, and I've found the environment to be a lot less sophisticated than I'd expected or hoped. Mine are usually divorce or estate deals, and the classic car argument is a bit of a sideshow to the non-car folks in attendance.

I don't use the term much in my printed appraisals, but its a pretty clear, plain spoken way to differentiate
"an" original engine from "the" original engine. One statement to that effect to the courtroom should bring everyone up to speed, and eliminate any dismissive glances at an otherwise credible witness.

**TimG** · #9 01-07-2009, 01:34 AM

It could be the born with engine, but decked and stamped.....

How about born with and unrestamped. We really need to narrow this down.....

**Mr70** · #10 01-07-2009, 01:59 AM

Or to go the other way..
While watching the news,a born again christian Mother of 5 claimed she was now "Re-Hymenated".

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