Fake Protect-O-Plates...

[Hylton]

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You can carbon date the POP in this thread all you want and it will still come out as being almost 40 years old.


how is that?

it is 2 years old.....i dont understand....

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Some fraudsters are using original POP's that were never filled out in 1969. Consequently, all the material of the POP is from 1969. Besides, what seller is going to let you carbon test his docs?

I can see it now - "Okay I'll buy your car as soon as you give me the original paperwork so I can send it off to be tested". Not going to happen.

[RamAirDave]

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I can see it now - "Okay I'll buy your car as soon as you give me the original paperwork so I can send it off to be tested". Not going to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

In all fairness, Hylton, you did just ask in a current thread if it was possible to see behind a trim tag. That would involve bending the tag, popping off the rivets, removing the tag, whatever... Any method would likely lead to more questions than answers in the long run. Ask the owner if it's okay to do so, and that is not going to happen either.

[Tommy_Mathison]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can see it now - "Okay I'll buy your car as soon as you give me the original paperwork so I can send it off to be tested". Not going to happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

In all fairness, Hylton, you did just ask in a current thread if it was possible to see behind a trim tag. That would involve bending the tag, popping off the rivets, removing the tag, whatever... Any method would likely lead to more questions than answers in the long run. Ask the owner if it's okay to do so, and that is not going to happen either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Either that or just a photo of the rear of the trim tag? Behind the firewall? Seems a bit easier....

[RamAirDave]

Hylton: Now that I think about it, I think you meant taking a look behind the firewall rather than the tag itself.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Hylton: Now that I think about it, I think you meant taking a look behind the firewall rather than the tag itself.

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Yes. My point is that there are some things you can do without tearing a resto apart to ensure you are getting what you think you are getting.

With respect to a removed trim tag, you can make the engine side look un-touched, but it's pretty hard to make the caulking on the other side look 35 years old when the tag has been off the car.

There are also a few body stamp dates scattered throughout the car that can be verified provided the seller is willing to let you remove a few interior parts using a screwdriver and socket.

[PeteLeathersac]

Here's some interesting reading that arrived w/ my monthly online newsletter from the Kovels Antique group.. Change the names and items involved and you've got pretty much the same as what we're going through here in the car world!.


"...LOOK OUT FOR FAKES!

Restoration, embellishment and just plain fakes have been known in the world of collecting since ancient times. It is said that fake Greek coins tempted eager Roman collectors. High-end English and American shops are nervously waiting for more news about the latest major furniture-faking story. Did John Hobbs, a well-known high-priced English antiques dealer, really sell fake furniture as his restorer, Dennis Buggins, now claims? Buggins said he made pieces for Hobbs that he thought would be sold as new, but that Hobbs sold them as antiques--one table for as much as $2.4 million.
We are surprised that some of Hobbs' clients don't seem to care if a piece they bought is old or new. And even more surprising, the decorators who bought and sold the furniture evidently claimed no responsibility for authenticity. In the 19th century, fakers liked to re-carve round tilt-top tables into "wine-tasting" tables with added carved circles to outline the wine bottles. And it was acceptable to make an extra chair for a dining room set by using parts of an old chair and adding replica pieces. But these efforts were simple compared to the Hobbs-Buggins story. The supposed fakes were assembled from quality antiques with large, aged, wooden surfaces and pleasing shapes. One set of small tables from the Hobbs showroom is pictured in the New York Times. The tables were apparently made from two ends of a dining table and then embellished with antique cameos set in frames.
Many of Hobbs' expensive pieces seem to be fantasies, not copies, and many were sold with a fabricated written history of past ownership and workmen. Dealers, decorators and auction houses are now waiting to learn if lawsuits will result for any who handled the merchandise. A sad week for collectors. First a cloud over the merchandise sold by a top English dealer, then word that the crystal skulls Harrison Ford is seeking in his new Indiana Jones movie have been 19th-century fakes all along!..."


~ Pete

[Hylton]

2.4 million for a fake wooden table eh? Excuse me while I go try and find my old router...