Repro Pontiac round port/Oldsmobile W30 cyl heads

[HO455]

Hi Stefano,


Very well said regarding the 1970 blue W-30 convertible that was offered for sale at the Mecum auction and on E-bay. As I said before this particular car raised a great deal more questions than it was able to answer. From what I understand the seller had a reserve price of around 400K when it went through the fall 2006 Mecum auction. This was not a realistic price for this particular car considering the lack of definitive proof/ history as well as the overall condition of the car.

I agree about the rarity and the desirability of the W-30 convertible four speed cars. They have always been on the elite list of convertible Muscle cars. But it seems as though lately they have become extremely sought after & prized. I think the 1970-2 W-30 convertibles have always had one of the most beautiful bodies of the entire GM convertible line-up. Although, I equally appreciate the W-30 coupes due to their unique styling & performance advantages. I certainly value the rarity and extremely collectible nature of the entire stable of GM's elite convertible Muscle Cars whether they be an LS-6 Chevelle SS convertible, RAIV Judge convertible, or a Buick Stage one convertible. Clearly for Oldsmobile the four-speed cars were something special in the W-30s making them the most sought after for the Olds marquee.

As far as legitimate W-30 convertible’s that have changed hands–I have to rely on what I have learned from both renowned Oldsmobile restorers/authorities Gorden Vandermuellen and Troy Thornton. Both Mr. Vandermuellen and Mr. Thornton recently told me that all of the authentic and completely documented W-30 converts are in the hands of astute collectors that don’t plan or need to sell their cars anytime soon. They claim that most of what they have seen moving through auction houses or for sale are just very well done clones. Thornton said that authentic convertible W-30 cars with perfect pedigrees don’t even come up for sale, and if one should that the seller could name their price. Thornton told me that when one does comes up for sale it generally moves from one collector’s hands to another collector without any public knowledge of the sale. The last true & fully documented 1970 442 W-30 convertible four-speed car that traded hands was sold within a complete collection of a dozen or so RARE Oldsmobile’s. This collection featured all true concours number-one conditioned pedigreed cars that sold as a whole to an East Coast Muscle Car collector. This collection included several W-30 coupes, HOs and others along side a 1971 W-30 (one of thirty-two) and 1972 W-30 (one of thirty-three) convertible four-speed cars all w/ironclad pedigrees that all benefited from frame off rotisserie restorations. The 1970, which sold as part of the collection-I, have personally seen and I can say it was one of the most stunning autos & restorations I have yet seen. This 1970 W-30 convertible was ordered new out of the Jim Stohlman Oldsmobile Dealership. It was originally ordered to compete in the convertible four-speed stock classes of NHRA drag racing. It was Platinum & black w/four speed, no power options at all and a W-27 rear end.

I must mention also what a great help Troy Thornton has been to me recently. I am in the process of doing a complete restoration of my 1969 Hurst/ Olds and Troy has provided me with a great deal of advice as to what is or is not correct etc… he has always been kind & patient when we have spoken.

Lastly I will include a cool picture of 1970 W-30 post coupe that was owned & restored by longtime Olds guy Greg Goden. It was raced under the name of the Skunk and featured a four-speed and a W-27 rear end.

I hope everyone has a great Christmas and New Year ahead!

Cheers


John


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[Stefano]

W-Machines Rock!

[666 the legend]

[ QUOTE ]
My stinky H/O! The original owner failed to send in paperwork for the little owners tag. I have never tried to search out the original owner as he spent time in the 'iron bar hotel'.

[/ QUOTE ]...Is your VIN # in the DEMMER records..??

[Canuck]

With total producting for 70-72 W30 converts being less than 500 and the survivor rate being 50-60% its no wonder these cars trade hands without the help of auctions or public sales.
Having said that I know of two 70 W30 converts that sold in the past month after being on ebay. What is more public than that? Both cars needed restoration. I can count 5 more that changed hands in the past year,again various degrees of restoration or preservation quality. I know of 6 71 W-30 converts that changed hands in the past year, two on ebay,2 through dealers and two privately.
Keep in mind that the low production is directly related to low turnover.
Ironicly,in my youth I was always led to believe that Buick was the number two division to Cadillac in terms of being upscale. I guess the way GM marketed themselves led to that. Olds was always alligned with Chevrolet and Buick was alligned with Pontiac franchises. The majority,as I saw it had Cadillac dealers in the mix with Chev and Olds.
As far as there not being any nice 442 W30 cars for sale to the general public,its all about the numbers. Not too many Hemi Cuda's either. You will see Hemi Cuda's at BJ though and possible not too many Olds because in the past they do have not gotten the attention they deserve. Maybe the 08 auctions will be different?

[RM Schimel]

Ho455: I am familiar with the collection mentioned above. It is truly MIND BLOWING!!! Thanx also for all the great W-30 photos in your gallery section. Everyone should check them out if they are into Oldsmobile. RM

[agtw31]

who ended up with that manual boxed 4 speed 72 w-30 ragtop from toledo?

that thing was sweet.

[SmallHurst]

Devil!

I thought I had stated that my car is not on the partial list. They found a complete list of '68's and about 500 of the 906 '69's. Does that make mine more rare???

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
The people reproducing the parts are not the problem, the problem is the people buying the parts and trying to sell them as original cars not clones. Its finally come down to its not just the paperwork or the parts you now need history without it no one knows whats real or not. How many people are buying real original pieces to put on cars and resell them as real knowing they make repops makes people look a little closer at the cars then before repops were available.
I have worked on some of Joe's cars and yes he has some cars he put together but if I owned the parts place I would do the same. I really have never heard of him selling a clone as a real car. He also has many real cars I would love to have. So lets quite winning about the repop stuff since there is always a way to tell it apart from the real thing.
I also never hear people whinning about repop tires even though if you put 15 in on a Camaro it could be mistaked for a Z or Yenko. Bottom line no matter what its buyer beware. How about when GM was selling repop sheetmetal as original Gm, now thats really misrepresenting the item at least repop parts are being sold as repop parts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have to agree with that.

Wonder how hard it would have been for me to find an original radiator for my 70 L78 Camaro. I'd say next to impossible. If one did come up can you imagine how much I would have had to shell out? Joe just reproduced a very nice copy and I couldn't be happier. Give the guy a break.

[666 the legend]

[ QUOTE ]
Devil!

I thought I had stated that my car is not on the partial list. They found a complete list of '68's and about 500 of the 906 '69's. Does that make mine more rare???

[/ QUOTE ]....I guess it makes your car a " 442 that came with black interior and a cameo paint job".....LOL...