Repro Pontiac round port/Oldsmobile W30 cyl heads

[HO455]

Here we go again. I guess if you can't beat them you might as well join them!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-CUTL...emZ230189987583

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1970-OLDS...emZ230190485936

[w302nv]

I cant really see why everyone has their panties in a bunch over these heads. If they are anything like the intakes, W27 covers, red inner wells, OAI, or hoods, you can spot them from a mile away....so you have to work a little harder to make sure you dont get screwed....what else is new! Nothing anyone can do about it....heck you might be better off and learn new things in the process...(Im not usually a glass half full kinda guy...).
So has anyone with a respectable amount of Olds/W-Machine knowledge actually touched these things? What about date codes? Its very unlikely that these will be perfect knock offs.
Just like vintage guitars...there are people reproducing mega rare parts (see 1959 Les Pauls) and making a tidy sum doing so....that has done nothing to the value of the real things.......except maybe help inflate the values....I'm not so sure this does anything to make it tougher to authenticate a W-Machine.

[StealthBird]

Sorry, I just got back to this thread.

With all the clone information available on the internet, such as where hidden VIN’s are located, how to tell a repro part from an authentic, what font was used for stamping specific parts, etc, the number of clone W-30’s is growing, and it’s getting almost impossible to discern a well done clone from an authentic. Even noted experts can be fooled. I keep hearing the recurring theme of “check for documentation”, but documentation can be forged, and aged, and can be discernable from an original 30 year old document (this is also known as “Dan Rather Syndrome”), and repro parts can be doctored to look authentic.

On vintage guitars, if every guitar player you see has a near perfect 1959 Les Paul knockoff, do you believe anyone in the audience really cares when that one guitar player is playing a real 1959 Les Paul? Can you tell if it’s a fake from the 3rd row? So when I see 5 1970 W-30’s at a local car show, and someone states one of them is actually a real one, I’m sorry, I don’t immediately run over to the real one and hump the gas tank. I used to, but now I’m on medication.

The values of Yenko Camaros, LS6 cars, and especially Hemi cars, have definitely gone down in recent months. Is it the economy, or the fact that every auction house now seems to be littered with dozens of clones of these cars? I believe the audience is dwindling for those that will pay $10,000 for a Rolex, when the $500 counterfeit will garner just as much attention and respect at the country club. And they both tell time. It’s “Invasion Of The Musclecar Snatchers”, and eventually, the real cars will be the anomaly.

I don’t have a problem with the W-30 or RAIV heads being reproduced. It’s just another item that now will have to be checked very carefully before buying one of these cars. However, reproducing a major mechanical part like a cylinder head (or crankshaft, etc) is a far cry from reproducing a steering wheel centercap. I would like to know if these heads have the same wall thicknesses, tolerances, and materials quality as the originals. Some aftermarket heads, designed for performance, can suffer from misaligned ports, oil drainback issues, thin decks, thin water jacket walls, and a number of other problems. We take all of these things for granted when we use original GM heads, because GM heads were always well engineered and built to last. I’ve read that some folks want these heads for Pure Stock racing, so they can begin their builds with unmolested, unported heads. But if am to trust my 6000 rpm engine on the dragstrip to a set of aftermarket heads that may not have the same build quality and materials as original GM heads, I wouldn’t be rushing to buy a set. Hopefully, these heads will not just be reproduced for cosmetic purposes in order to satisfy the Grey Poupon, tire-booty types at car shows. I hope they will have the same high quality as an original GM head.

I apologize to anyone that I may have offended that prefers collecting, investing, and flipping cars for profit, over my interests, which are geared more towards Pure Stocks, cruise nights, test-and-tunes, and promoting the history of the Musclecar Era. Different strokes for different folks.


By the way, John (HO455) owns a real 69 H/O, and he’s probably seen more W-30 clones over the last 20 years than Hillary Clinton has dimples on her thighs.
Hey John, did you ever get your H/O painted?

Mike

P.S. – No, I haven’t seen Stacy Peterson in my town, so everyone please stop asking.

[budnate]

[ QUOTE ]
So when I see 5 1970 W-30’s at a local car show, and someone states one of them is actually a real one, I’m sorry, I don’t immediately run over to the real one and hump the gas tank. I used to, but now I’m on medication.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO! and about spit my coffee all the place,thnx

[StealthBird]

And heap big prices make Pontiac Chief scratch head.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...em=200174727555

[Paul_S]

^ Very nice 'Bird... but who's name was rubbed off the passenger side headrest to put Wangers on?

[HO455]

Man it is just not my day!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...em=230192710672

[Johnny Horsepower]

[ QUOTE ]
And heap big prices make Pontiac Chief scratch head.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS...em=200174727555

[/ QUOTE ]

my original drive train older restoration FOUR SPEED 69 TA is now available at half price!and for the 250k i will throw in a mint 02 bmw M3 convertible.......any takers

John

[Canuck]

At least the Pontiac guys have the "Clone Ranger" behind them in PHS. All the Olds people have is what has been passed down from one person to another.

[HO455]

Very well said Canuck. I am just completely fed up with seeing CLONES. Every Cutlass has been turned into a W-30 or at least striped like one, every LeMans a GTO, every 69 Firebird is either completely or partially been turned into a 69 Trans Am. It would be a miracle to see someone leave a car the way appeared when it left the factory. I would be greatly impressed to see a regular LeMans, 69 Firebird, 442 or even a Cutlass S that appeared the way it was born. Now that would be impressive. But big thanks must again go out to that lowlife Parts Place Joe because now every 69 cutlass I see will soon look like a 69 Hurst Olds - thanks again. But from what I understand all he owns is clones anyway so why not keep the population growing and get rich while doing it.