Repro Pontiac round port/Oldsmobile W30 cyl heads

[tryconcom]

Gentleman: its a great and wonderful thing joe did for the average man-he's making it afordadable to own a car of your youth-befor all the Sc#%B#g horders and Barret/Jackson syfphalitic midget leaches drove the price of these cars half way to Bagdad. I like the idea of the 4spd/w30 HO verts now being built-Lets get those continuation production lines going-501 69 W30/4spd hurst olds verts by 31 Dec 2007-That should be enough production to recertify for NHRA. I also like 455hos idea of engine stamping kits-definite-need-there-just ask the 1967 427/435 vette guys! Yea lets get those 400 turbo OW tags on the market for 9.95 or less- I like it!For those of you who paid $5000 for a set of w30/fs or a set of RAIV 722/614 now that the new stuff is half-thats just the way it is-next time don't try to hoard or drive the price of something thru the roof because justice, also known as market forces, may come into play and may spank your wanker.

[HO455]

......See this is the problem with Joe’s repo D, F and H heads. Now every hillbilly with two grand is going to make a perfect W-30 clone and sell it at the upcoming Mecum auction as authentic. Unfortunately the fakes are SO GOOD now even the experts can’t tell. I think it is pretty naïve to think that everyone who buys these “Parts Place” repro heads has good intentions. Unfortunately money & greed is driving a great deal of the Muscle Car hobby today. After seeing several collectors burned badly recently on faked W30s - maybe I am more cynical than most. By the way these were not just novice Oldsmobile collectors. These were Olds guys who have years & years of experience dealing with and restoring Oldsmobile W-30s. But at least the trial lawyers will be happy, as it has now created a whole new market for them in dealing with collector car fraud.

[csx289]

Now more than ever, there is NO substitute for real paperwork, documentation, and OWNER HISTORY...

I agree - guys that want performance buy Edelbrock heads or the like, guys that want to build convincing fakes to defraud buyers LOVE repo heads, intakes,balancers, build sheets, P-O-P's, etc.

I have 2 '71 W30 cars, both with real window stickers, multiple build sheets, and bulletproof history (both purchased from their 2nd owners, one owned since '77, one since '71). 5 years ago I would have taken a chance on buying one without this kind of history, but not now.

Somebody mentioned 67 427/435 Vette guys and stampers- there is a reason why those cars aren't worth more, and it is coming our way

Colin

[tryconcom]

CSX289; I love repo heads,intakes,balancers,dual gates and ALL other repo parts. But not for fraud, you guys all know about the 442, gtx, gto, chevelle, mustang, vett you parted out and not just one of them 15-20 years ago, cars that today could be brought back, perhaps with one (2?) foot in the crusher-the car would have been so bad we would name it Lazarus!-I am as GUILTY! I send a good, complete non running 67 4spd GTO to the junk yard because I didn't have the time. These exact repo parts allow us to turn the clock back with what bodies are remaining and produce that w-30 we blew up in 75 or that 69 RA-IV we parted out in 82. I won't even discuss the 396 nova SS we totaled and wraped around a tree on newyears eve 1977! Lets not be so upset on these special repo parts being made.

[StealthBird]

Seeing reproduction RAIV, 455HO, or W-30 heads doesn’t really surprise me, especially considering the parties involved. The entire Musclecar world is being reproduced! Being a Pontiac guy, I'm grateful we have PHS to authenticate a car. The reproduction of RAIV or 455HO heads (I guess the SD455 heads can't be far behind) will now allow people to clone all sorts of rare Pontiacs. However, it all goes back to the PHS documentation to see if it’s real. Unfortunately, because PHS is considered THE final word in the Pontiac community, we now have people that forge PHS invoices. They can take a 1969 Lemans invoice, scan it into their computer, change or add option codes, order up a forged trim tag, and voila, instant RAIV Judge! By adding repro RAIV heads into the equation, it just adds another element of doubt when trying to purchase one of these rare cars.

As more and more perfect clones appear, the prices for the authentics will go down, and it will damage their value. We’ve already seen a slump in prices in recent months for authentics (the Hemi cars are way down), and I believe it’s directly related to the fact that more and more clones are flooding the market. The supply and demand chain for authentics has shifted to the point where it’s now a buyer’s market. Granted, there will always be a market for those that seek true authenticity, and will be willing to pay 6 figures. But as more and more rare parts get reproduced (W-30 intake, W-30 heads, etc), and more and more perfect clones appear at auction houses, the demand (and prices) for the authentics will go down.

As we all know, there is a huge market for those wanting to purchase a car that is, mechanically and cosmetically, a perfect copy of a rare and desirable Musclecar, and for half the price of the real-deal. I believe it’s this segment of the market where these repro heads will fit in. Cars with somewhat questionable history, or cars that are flat out forgeries, will now be able to add another element of doubt as to their cars authenticity.

In my opinion, I would think that anyone with a true documented 70-72 W-30 car (or a 69-70 RAIV GTO or Firebird, or a 71-72 455HO car) that’s going through a full restoration, but are missing their original heads, would want to find original factory heads, and would not be interested in these repros.

So for Olds owners, I understand their concern about the W-30 heads being reproduced. With a forged trim tag, phony documentation, restamped block, reproduction W-30 heads, intake, hood, fenders, and air cleaner, counterfeit W-30’s are becoming as common as 1969 Z/28’s. To buy a real W-30 car nowadays, you almost need a hire a private detective to trace the owner history, conduct interviews with close relatives, perform lie detector tests, and while you’re at it, hire someone to perform metallurgy tests on the trim tag and VIN plates to see if they’re truly 35+ years old. It’s really out of hand now, which is why I believe the market is softening for authentics.

Hey, I just received the new Musclecar Enthusiast Magazine, which has excellent articles (written by the very under appreciated Paul Zazzarine) on the 1966 L-69 442, 1966 W-30 442, and the 1966 Track-Pak W-30, all of which utilized the very rare, one year only Olds Tri-Carb intake.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/66-1966-O...sspagenameZWDVW

Now where’s my reproduction chrome 1966 Tri-Carb W-30 air cleaner?

[John Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
Now where’s my reproduction chrome 1966 Tri-Carb W-30 air cleaner?

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They'll be along shortly. Number stamped, between 1 and 154, for an extra charge no doubt.

[HO455]

Hi Mike,

Fantastic post-very well said. You and I both realize first hand what a problem this has become among the Oldsmobile community. It is very sad when all the money got involved with the hobby-so did all the dishonesty. It really has ruined it. Like you said money truly is the root of all that is evil. Oh well, I think I will just stick to Frankenstein heads from here on out.

Take care!
John

[RM Schimel]

quote]


As more and more perfect clones appear, the prices for the authentics will go down,



Huh ?????????? If anything all the cloning has made the authentic cars even more valuable. Just because there are numerous replicas available of Leonardo Da Vinci’s painting of Mona Lisa (I guess I’m to believe that the original is worthless). I think it might be time for a bit of a reality check stealthbird and ho455. The cloning of both the W-30 and LS-6 rags especially has made the authentic cars invaluable. Because of the smaller & smaller crop of true documented 30s and LS-6 cars that exist today we have seen the prices skyrocket as of late. When I flew into Illinois for the fall Mecum auction, the one LS-6 vert that was offered had bids of over 400K and the reserve was still on. P. Klute paid 400K at recent auction for black/tan 1970 RAIV 1970 Judge vert. The current HMM GTO Judge vert cover car would pull even more. The only fully documented W-30 rag I have seen recently for sale was sold during the Olds club Nats. It was an original 1970 red /black four speed car. It looked like it came out of the grave and was in need of a complete resto but still sold for 360K. There have been other 30 rags w/4spds in perfect condition with docs that have sold for a whole lot more coin. LS-6, W-30 and RAIV Judge coupes with documentation routinely sell for above six figures. So if the market is softening for authentics, I sure haven’t seen it!!!

[agtw31]

[ QUOTE ]
It was an original 1970 red /black four speed car. It looked like it came out of the grave and was in need of a complete resto but still sold for 360K.

[/ QUOTE ]

sounds like somebody had a ton of money to hide from Uncle Sam.