New TRIM TAG law going into effect in Oklahoma!

joey · #1 11-10-2007, 05:12 PM

My only problem with this law is,#! buyers remorse lets say someone spends 100k on a z28 and a year later says I cant get my money back out of it so I will sue the seller. I dont think its real, because the intake is dated 2 weeks off or it has replacement rims or there is no putty on the cowl tag rivetts so it must be a fake.Who is to say they can tell what every car most definitly is or was ,I know of no one.Some think they can but thats just it they think they can but can they prove it? I doubt it because most all of them have allready made mistakes! Now I do think this is a good move in the right dirrection but only time will tel!!

**Steve Shauger** · #2 11-11-2007, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My only problem with this law is,#! buyers remorse lets say someone spends 100k on a z28 and a year later says I cant get my money back out of it so I will sue the seller. I dont think its real, because the intake is dated 2 weeks off or it has replacement rims or there is no putty on the cowl tag rivetts so it must be a fake.Who is to say they can tell what every car most definitly is or was ,I know of no one.Some think they can but thats just it they think they can but can they prove it? I doubt it because most all of them have allready made mistakes! Now I do think this is a good move in the right dirrection but only time will tel!!

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What the heck are you talking about. Your scenario has nothing to do with the law as introduced. Try reading it first before commenting geez.

**427king** · #3 11-11-2007, 02:09 AM

Actually his idea isnt far fetched. Im sure someone that buys a car for big money and simply made a mistake buying a nicely done clone for big$$ could easily change the tag himself and start a lawsuit. I see it all the time on parts, someone finds a part on ebay for 1/2 of what they just paid and suddenly they want to return the part or all of a sudden they noticed a defect. That trim tag law does give this type of person a little loophole if the buyer is dishonest and simply wants out of his own mistake . Try proving as a seller that the trim tag on a car isnt the one you sold it with.

**Charley Lillard** · #4 11-11-2007, 02:13 AM

Taking a nice pic of the trim tag on the car before you sell it would probably cover it especially if it was a ebay add that everyone saw.

Hylton · #5 11-11-2007, 02:38 AM

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Taking a nice pic of the trim tag on the car before you sell it would probably cover it especially if it was a ebay add that everyone saw.

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That, and a clear declaration by both parties in the bill of sale acknowledging the state of the car, including the trim tag (and everything else for that matter).

**Steve Shauger** · #6 11-11-2007, 06:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Actually his idea isnt far fetched. Im sure someone that buys a car for big money and simply made a mistake buying a nicely done clone for big$$ could easily change the tag himself and start a lawsuit. I see it all the time on parts, someone finds a part on ebay for 1/2 of what they just paid and suddenly they want to return the part or all of a sudden they noticed a defect. That trim tag law does give this type of person a little loophole if the buyer is dishonest and simply wants out of his own mistake . Try proving as a seller that the trim tag on a car isnt the one you sold it with.

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In that case he would be a criminal, based on this law. I doubt the owner who swapped tags (because he was unhappy with the car), would then report it to the authorities (knowing what he did was unlawful) so that he could get his money back from the previous owner. This thing has been what iffed to death. I think there's a better chance of a ZL1 engine floating up from the bottom of the Connecticut river.

**PeteLeathersac** · #7 11-20-2007, 11:34 PM

Ok, here it's Nov. 20'th and thanks to Lynn and others hard work, the Oklahoma legislation has been law for a few weeks already.. So what now as there's obviously still tons of tags selling daily on eBay and elsewhere?. If there's any chance of at least getting eBay to stop assisting the problem, should we who care maybe band together in some way and do something to get eBay's attention?. I'm thinking we perhaps target a few specific auctions and in a consistant fashion, report them as illegal items being sold and citing the Oklahoma law?. I just can't help but feel if this things truly gonna' have any bite, the sooner we act, the more chance of it ever being possible?. Anyone else have any other ideas...or care?.

Here's an current example we could start with...even has the Vin tag included!.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Chev...sspagenameZWDVW

~ Pete

Allen · #8 11-21-2007, 12:05 AM

This isn't Ebay's problem. They provide the venue for selling things.... that's it.

Using the logic of it being Ebay's problem, then all swap meets, auto trader magazines, car corrals at a show, Hemmings, etc. should all be charged with policing the cars for sale. Where there any cars with tag issues at Vettefest for sale? If yes, is it Vettefest's problem to resolve?

The car owners are to be accountable for their actions, not something/someone else.

**PeteLeathersac** · #9 11-21-2007, 01:01 AM

No it's not eBay's problem...at least not unless they end up liable to someone who can afford to push a case through the courts?.
The immediate problem more belongs to the innocents who stuck w/ a fraudulent deal and can't afford the legal struggles...also to an extent those of us who care about the history and values of genuine cars sufferng as they're watered down w/ the tagged stuff?.
With eBay being the major venue for loose tags, getting co-operation from them would put the biggest dent of all in this action...also perhaps make other venues think about offering their sale as well?.
As far as cars w/ tag issues for sale anywhere , that's no doubt too tough of an issue to consider policing or debating each case...but the loose tag action being shut down is possible and the sooner that could ever happen, the less new tag issue cars are created?.
I have no magic answers nor feel like taking on a giant either...but I admire how far Lynn and the others have taken things so far and do feel there truly is a possibility to get eBay to include the loose tag sales in their prohibited items lists if we get on them now while the legislation is fresh?. Anyone else feel it's possible too or what?.

~ Pete

Verne_Frantz · #10 11-21-2007, 03:13 AM

Allen,
While "technically" I'd have to agree that it's not "ebay's problem", ebay does have a list of items that are on their banned list, such as firearms and porn. As I have stated before, I and others have sent ebay messages urging them to add trim tags to their banned list, but their response is that those tags contain no "vehicle specific" information like a VIN tag does. Of course they're wrong, because there are no two alike, but they've been blind to that.
Now that selling a tag is illegal in one state, I'd think they'd have to take notice and not allow the ad.
Ebay, swap meets, auctions, Hemmings, etc are not being put in the position of policemen looking for cars with questionable tags. But the simple act of selling a tag itself or accepting an ad for one for sale through their venue is knowingly allowing the law to be broken.

I would think a good "next step" would be to send a hard copy of the law (with a cover letter) to ebay, Hemmings, etc, then wait to see if they do the right thing. I would also be inclined to let Lynn decide on the wording and method for that "next step". I hope he will offer his opinion here.

Verne

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