GM Workers on Strike

[Schonyenko2]

Rob, one of the reasons a person like me went to work in a plant like this at 19 is that you were guaranteed these benifits through contract negotiations, and settlements. Alot of us would have gone else where and worked at construction jobs, or more appealing work, but these were jobs with specific negotiated guarantees that paid good wages to support a family on one income. A mom got to raise the kids, not a child care provider. And with things like 30 and out, you had a chance to reach retirement at a reasonable age, with a few years left to enjoy life. Companies don't just give you benifits. Much of the reason goes back to Henry Ford who paid good wages, and benifits to keep a well trained, and consistent work force.
If you work for a company like GM, and are guaranteed benifits at retiremant time through duly negotiated contractual agreements, how would you feel at say 68 years old, they half your retirement check, and cut, or drop your health care? Especially, if like at GM, they didn't adequetly fund their retirement pension fund. At 68 are you going to go back into the work force? This becomes a social issue then as the tax payer is probably going to have to pick up some of the cost.
As to fairness and cooperation between union, and companies, I remember in one of the last contracts we had, the company was making money hand over fist, but wanted us to take concesions. They said that due to global competition that they couldn't afford to negotiate any increases in anything. So the union negotiators went back and said,if we take concessions, will you lower the price of the product to give us a leg up on the competition, keep employment stable and increase market share? They basicly said to piss off, and they'd handle corporate pricing strategy.

[69LM1]

What do you guys think re: the stock market and how the dynamic of less for more plays into this discuusion.

When the hurricane hit here, the local energy company (Entergy - publicly traded) got a government bailout because "It was not fair to the stockholders".

Thoughts?

[427king]

If a worker can be replaced by someone willing to work for less,and/or by someone that would give the company less headaches.Its only a matter of time before that worker is replaced.Cant blame ANY company for that. They are in it for profit,not to ensure security for a lifetime [that not many in this country get] to everyone that walks through thier doors.

[Salvatore]

Chuckie....Were you not in a union at onetime when you were playing basketball? I agree with all you guys the unions can't demand what they once did when we were strong and profitable in this country. We also can NOT give up the whole ship because big corporations are making big profits. How can anybody blame a worker for trying to get ahead and support his family? I also believe that alot of the problem is politics and how so few American wokers union or non-union have to support the big paychecks and overhead of the CEO, white collar office and managment staff that is basically overhead. Yes unions caused alot of their own problems but big business in a sense helped sell them down the river. In my eyes corporate America has won. Outsource work and jobs, break the unions,cut back healthcare and pension plans and most Human Resource depts. do very little for their employees anymore. Don't dare speak up or there will be consequences. I can't believe the blue collar Union people are really hurting the country anymore. Maybe 14% of the work force is Union?? I feel America had a real strong 150 years of industrial and economic dominance know it is time for another country to control the market. Only problem most of the imports in my opinion are 2nd rate. So in a nut shell everybody has to do what they think is best for them and their families. I, along with my family will always support the working man and the Unions. Would not be where I am if I was not an IBEW Union member for 30 years. So..... Lets go have a nice cold American and make sure our kids are secure for the future.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

It all comes back to our greedy politicians. Why not impose a tariff on imported goods? Electronics, automobiles, etc? Make an even playing field for our USA made stuff?

[Chevy454]

Because it's *never* an even playing field, fastvelle...the USA is held to a higher standard than any other country in the world, right or wrong...but that's leaving too many concessions to countries that are now competitors, and it's biting us in the rear.

Schonye: I don't blame you a bit! I'd have done the same thing...sounds familiar to the locals & the railroad around this country. I keep telling the younger hirees to cash in while they can, get the benefits, pay for a house and/or land, while they can. Because who knows what can/will happen down the road? But it seems to me like there has to be a point of diminishing return with the employees (management & labor both) asking for more while business/profits are taking a dive?

[BUIZILLA]

I guess I am damm glad my Dmax is a great truck, and paid for...

[Schonyenko2]

Ok. About 15-20 years ago companies started the two tiered wage, and benefit strategy. That was to leave the older workers pretty much where they were, and the new hires would come in with much lower wages, and benefits. This would lower costs, and keep them competitive in a global economy.Unions fought it pretty well for a while, but it was a loosing battle. So about 10 years ago John Deere's UAW contract bought in to keep plants from closing, and help job security. Many members felt perhaps it would help the farming industry by keeping costs more manageable.
After the contract was ratified, Deere actually raised their prices, and bought the area where the John Deere classic is now held.
I asked a local farmer who had just bought a new Deere combine how much they had discounted it.(Ia farmers are a pretty non union bunch) He said "what do you mean discount?" I said well now the new employees are makin half what they used to, and there's no company sponsored retirement, and the healthcare is 80/20. You should have got a bunch off the combine, because they were told it was all their fault the machines were so expensive. But hey, maybe the CEO will let ya play a round of golf with him on that shinny new course.
Unions, whether you like them or not, helped establish a high standard of living in this country. The question is, do we want to keep those standards, or bring them down to the standards in other countries?

[427king]

Sam, I was overseas for 8 years and at the time each outfit was allowed to hire under contract 2 foreigners.At the time the foreigners were made up of 99.9 Americans for three reasons. We were the best players,we would draw the biggest crowds,and it was a prestige thing for the Europeans to bring in Americans. As time went on,more and more Yugoslavians/Russians and the like were preferred as they didnt have the lavish demands Americans did,would work for 1/3 of what we would, and would work with no guaranteed contracts and a handshake instead of a contract as they were in third world countries. As tie went on, the europeans became as good as we americans and they now made up around 50% of the foreign workforce. If a company has loads of money thye can afford what they want,otherwise its a tradeoff for less prestige and ability VS cheaper labor. Same concept/ I decided rather than play without a guaranteed contract to retire and sell you guys parts