A different Point of View ....

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
The hatred of America, liberty, capitalism and our free enterprise sys being taught to American children is really no different than the hatred of America being taught to children in the middle east (in fact, all over the world).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know if you've noticed, but Western/American capitalism is alive and doing VERY, VERY, VERY WELL. Anti-capitalists might 'try' to indoctrinate our kids---and some are successful I suppose but those kids become angry losers---BUT the desire to have a car(s), a house, air conditioning, a pool, a boat, a bath every day, freedom of thought, freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom to go outside of one's tribe to find a companion, and on and on---that desire is RAMPANT across the world. Only the few, noisy malcontents like al Queda, Communists (old-school Communists, not the Chinese gov't), anarchists, and a few others make up such a small minority that they almost cannot be quantifed when compared to the BILLIONS who want what we in the West have. The minority that makes noise usually gets the attention it seeks, thanks to 24-hour cable news that needs SOMETHING to fill all that time, but rarely does that minority really get its way. Remember the WTO (World Trade Organization) riots here in Seattle several years ago? The anarchists made a big noise and all the local news and CNN/Fox/etc. all covered it from every angle. It was just like London during the German blitz in 1940-41 with newspeople on the rooftops and mayhem in the sreeets. Then the police moved in and kicked the s-it out of the protesters and dispersed them. Things calmed down after a few days and the angry anarchists, who are not going to change anything no matter how many windows they break, went back to their daily lives not having made any difference. People may sympathize (liberal professors, etc.) but damn-near every human being on this planet wants what Americans enjoy daily. (Americans may sympathize but we forget all about it once we are inside Costco.)

Ask any poor Indian (in India) what he wants and he'll say, "Air conditioning." Prod him some more and he'll say, "An Escalade with air conditioning." Keep prodding and you have an American consumer ready to go, just give him a job and credit and he has been won-over by capitalism. China too. The Chinese want it so bad that I wouldn't rule-out some kind of revolution someday--they almost succeeded in 1989. The Communist Chinese ruling body had better keep buying-off the population with consumerism because that's the only way they'll hold power in this Internet/cable news century, barring massive bloodshed (transmitted worldwide on the Internet and cable news television--way too risky for the Chinese gov't).

I know, it seems as if we are losing our hold on everything and we have to blame someone. The low-end of the AM radio dial is full of screamers warning of the coming doom unless we do something. Liberal professors and colleges have been around for a long time and capitalism (and liberty) just keeps roaring along. It roars along and tosses all those whining anti-capitalists overboard and does NOT look back! You either get onboard with capitalism or you will immediately become a forgotten loser.

Those people you mention who hate America--they are a vocal yet EXTREMELY SMALL minority and have no real effect except to piss-off AM radio hosts who need something to rail against to keep you angry and listening and buying the products his radio show advertises. (Capitalism again.) Look around: America is alive and well and thriving. Yeah, the stock market collapse of 2000-2001 really put a dent in my portfolio (I didn't get out fast enough) but it's been coming back (capitalism!) and I am not worried. Oh, and give American kids some credit. They may enjoy hearing anti-American screed from college professors because it suits their rebellious nature as college kids. But 99.999% of our youth cannot wait to get out of school and start BUYING STUFF. I remember it well. I bought an '87 LX 5.0 brand new with my college grad discount at Hayward Ford and the rumble of those stainless pipes and the pull of that little 302 (uphill in 3rd with the a/c on high) made me instantly forget any of that anti-whatever crap I had experienced during the past four years.

EVERYBODY ON EARTH wants liberty, capitalism and our free enterprise system for themselves, even hard-core al Queda crazies. (Osama bin Laden is from an incredibly wealthy family, by the way. How's that for irony?) You could take an al Queda foot-soldier out of his element, detox him for a few months, and then immerse him in capitalsim by giving him a decent job, a car, and freedom of everything. Maybe 1 in 50 would resist but eventually the other 49 would see that what we have in America is what they wanted all along: freedom, liberty, and yes, capitalism. Our founding fathers were not stupid.

[nuch_ss396]

[quote..... Our founding fathers were not stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct - But they also weren't liberals either

[427TJ]

[ QUOTE ]
[quote..... Our founding fathers were not stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct - But they also weren't liberals either

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh sure they were. Just not the modern type that scares the sh-it out of the opposite fringe. They were liberals, conservatives, and anyone else who shared a common goal to create a free and strong country full of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They were also all well-to-do white male land-owners who basically thought alike so it was an elite club. Things have sometimes gone awry since then but the foundation they laid has endured almost exactly the way they intended it to. Almost.

[Kim_Howie]

Are founding Fathers were all liberals they fought the Brits. to start this country!!!

[tom406]

First off, a thank you to Bill/427TJ. I kind of urged him to share his opinion in this thread, and I got busy and let him do all the heavy lifting. I always enjoy his well thought out posts and appreciate him taking the time to type them out.

As I stated during the run up to the war, the events of 9/11 were mostly separate from Iraq. As Bill pointed out, there are many other examples of more brutal leaders around the world, and none of them were as well contained as Saddam. This was a war of choice, brought about by a mixture of post 9/11 vengence, wounded pride by some neo-cons who felt the Gulf war was an unfinished job rather than a tactical decision, and a desire to really have control of an oil-rich part of the middle East. Not a simple grab for a bunch of barrels, but a misguided dream to think that we could just end up with our own little private Texas in the middle of a region we cannot control and resent having to try and manage. I believe this war was lost before it ever started, but even if it wasn't, come on, the administration had no real political or media opposition from 9/11 thru Cindy Sheehan. If it was winnable, they had the time and materials to do it. The management of the war was as flawed as the justification of it, so no "win" is attainable. Why keep sending soldiers and money into the hole? Support our troops-YES- demand that they be given a good plan and the tools and numbers to carry it out. That didn't happen in Iraq.

TOM

[rare1]

Three blokes - a Canadian farmer, Osama bin Laden and an
Aussie engineer - were working together when they come across a lantern .
One of them rubbed it and a Genie popped out. "I will give each of you one
wish," said the Genie.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Canadian said, "I am a farmer, and my son will also farm.
I want the land to be forever fertile in Canada."
> >
> >
> >
> > POOOOFF! In the blink of the Genie's eye, the land in Canada
was forever fertile for farming.
> >
> >
> >
> > Osama bin Laden was amazed, so he said, "I want a high wall
around Afghanistan, Israel, Palestine, Iraq and Iran so that no infidels,
Americans or Australians can come into our precious lands."
> >
> >
> >
> > POOOFF! Again, with the blink of the Genie's eye, there was a
huge wall around those countries.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Aussie engineer said, "I 'm curious. Tell me more about
this wall."
> >
> >
> >
> > The Genie explained, "Well, it's about 5,000 feet high, 500
feet thick and completely surrounds the countries. Nothing can get in or
out - it's virtually impenetrable."
> >
> >
> >
> > The Aussie cracked open a beer, smiled and said, "My wish -
fill it with water."

[Supergas990]

That's GREAT!!! I'll have that beer now.

Blair

[ANDY M]

The other version of that joke goes like this:
The Canadian asks the genie for a great job and a stable marriage. Done.
The Aussie asks the genie for a large harem of beautiful women to satisfy his every whim and fancy. Done
Bin Laden, hearing this, smiles and thinks this over. After a minute or two, he finally makes up his mind and tells the genie, "That sounds like a pretty good idea, except I would like to be white, and completely surrounded by exotic Arab women.
So the genie turned him into a tampon.

[Kim_Howie]

POOF WORLD PEACE

[Mr70]

We"ll need snacks too....POOF!