which is best- c.e. or date correct motor?

[L34Pace]

A date correct engine would be considered a restoration engine and best suited for judging. A CE engine is correct only if it is original to the car through GM warranty replacemant during its first 5 years or 50K miles of service.

[427king]

[ QUOTE ]
A date correct engine would be considered a restoration engine and best suited for judging.

[/ QUOTE ] Last i knew the NCRS allows more points for a CE pad than a blank pad.Although i could be wrong. There are alot of cars with CE motors that dont have validation of having them. They are still the best next to the original motor in my mind. If i had to pick a better option than a decked dated block,id pick a dated stamped block with the same horsepower designation as the car

[nuch_ss396]

Chuck,

What's considered validation? A dealer receipt for the
engine swap? Can't those be faked too?

Steve

[TimG]

Even a true, verified CE motor could have a casting date way later than the build date of the car. It could also have a casting number that would not be correct for the car. You could, in fact, receive no points due to late casting date, wrong casting number, no VIN derivative and no assembly derivative.

What if a person bought a new '68 Corvette built in October of '67? It may have been purchased in December of '67 and the original motor went south 11 months later, in November of '68. The dealer gets a CE warranty block and that block may have a '69 part number on it because the factory is now kicking out '69 equipment. The casting date may be September of 1968, 11 months after the car was built and probably more than one year later than the original motor was cast. CE verification or not, this motor will receive no points for the engine. In this case, I'd rather have an August 1968 replacement block with the correct casting number and sell the CE block to a guy with a 1969 Corvette.

[firstgenaddict]

I'm with Chuck... a decked dated block is the last option IMHO... decked blocks are an unknown... if you can find a correct suffix block that would be the best... if it happens to have no VIN derivative it is a bonus... they are few and far between though... and for Gods sake if you do find one without the VIN please don't stamp one... that is

[JohnZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Last i knew the NCRS allows more points for a CE pad than a blank pad.

[/ QUOTE ]

In NCRS judging, a blank pad gets a 25-point deduct for no engine plant stamp, a 25-point deduct for no VIN derivative stamp, and a 38-point deduct if the pad surface has been decked; if it's a factory-broached blank pad, there's no pad surface deduction.

A "CE" block pad is judged exactly the same way (-25 for the incorrect engine plant stamp, -25 for the missing VIN stamp, and no surface deduction if the factory-broached pad is showing and is typical).

Most of the block points are allocated to the casting number and date, and less for the pad, and they're judged sequentially (unique only to block judging):

If the block casting number is incorrect, a 350-point deduct is taken and block judging stops right there.

If the casting number is correct, the casting date is judged; if the date is incorrect, a 175-point deduct is taken and block judging stops right there.

If the casting number and date are correct, the pad is judged; if the engine plant stamp is incorrect/not typical/missing, it's a 25-point deduct. Same for the VIN derivative stamp. If the pad surface isn't typical or has added marks, it's a 38-point deduct. There are no partial deductions for the three pad elements - each either gets full credit or a full deduction, and if a pad has paint on it, an 88-point deduction is taken for all three pad elements, as it can't be adequately judged.

[TimG]

Thanks, John. Most likley, a CE block would be a later casting number and certainly a later casting date than correct for a car.

[Alss]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, John. Most likley, a CE block would be a later casting number and certainly a later casting date than correct for a car.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree!
My COPO has a CE block and I have the repair order from the dealer replacing the block under warranty. Block is a Dec 70 512 and was installed in the car in March of 71..Block is stamped CE1XXXXX

ALbert

[427king]

Heres how i see the market in order of preference AND a value for the car scenario 1]original motor 2]original dated block w original build date but no vin 3] alt vin and dated for car build 4] CE motor 5}dated motor w decked pad 6]restamped restoration motor 7]wrong date and decked block With an emphasis on 1-4 being great options and 5-7 being least favorable. I may put CE at #2 spot,especially since the alt vin and no vin blocks may eventually get described as the original motor down the road and the CE will still remain a constant that being a acceptable replacement that could of well come in the car post assembly adn the car can never get misrepresented with it. [ QUOTE ]
In NCRS judging, a blank pad gets a 25-point deduct for no engine plant stamp, a 25-point deduct for no VIN derivative stamp, and a 38-point deduct if the pad surface has been decked; if it's a factory-broached blank pad, there's no pad surface deduction.

A "CE" block pad is judged exactly the same way (-25 for the incorrect engine plant stamp, -25 for the missing VIN stamp, and no surface deduction if the factory-broached pad is showing and is typical).

Most of the block points are allocated to the casting number and date, and less for the pad, and they're judged sequentially (unique only to block judging):



[/ QUOTE ] So my take on that is if you have a CE motor dated for the car you gain 38 points over a decked block thats dated for the car ,because the CE has broach marks..A never stamped block would be even better but harder to find for sure

[L34Pace]

[/ QUOTE ] So my take on that is if you have a CE motor dated for the car you gain 38 points over a decked block thats dated for the car ,because the CE has broach marks..A never stamped block would be even better but harder to find for sure

[/ QUOTE ]

The block casting, (350 pts) would be judged first and then the date, (175 pts) and finally the pad with its three elements. Keep in mind that the stops are put in place at the first non comforming data. In the case of a legitimate CE that would be extremely prohibitive unless you used a CE from another vehicle