Aircraft pics

[SS427]

Tragic news and the second bad news of the day.

Annie and I went to Capital Airport today to visit a B-17, B-24 and B-25 that were staying there for a few days and called my Warbird restorer/brother to let him hear the B-24 firing up (I will post pictures later) At that time he informed me of this tragidy. As it turned out I knew both pilots, Gerry Beck flying Precious Metal II and Bob Odegaards's son Casey flying Dazzling Donna. Casey survived but Gerry was killed upon impact. Anyone who knows either of these gentleman know what a tragic loss to the Warbird community that Gerry's death will bring as he was a huge asset to the P-51 family. Not a good day today.

[nuch_ss396]

Rick,

Does anyone know what happened to cause this crash?
Hard to believe a landing could go so badly.

Steve

[427TJ]

This is only speculation based on watching a video of the mishap.

The lead Mustang, a heavier D-model, landed on-speed and began to decelerate immediately. The wingman, a lighter A-model, was high on the approach and at the last few seconds lowered the nose to land in formation. In lowering the nose, the wingman P-51A accelerated and began to overtake the leader. The leader, with a larger four-blade prop that makes more drag in idle than the A's smaller 3-blade prop, was already decelerating at a faster rate and the A rapidly overtook the D. The A pilot may have kept his power in a split-second longer and that would have exacerbated his developing overtake problem. By the time the wingman A-model realized his overtake problem, as well as an overlap problem between his right wing and the tail of lead, it was too late to avoid collision. Note also that it appears that the wingman may have never actually touched-down fully--his airplane was flying, or at least very light on the wheels, throughout the mishap and thus the wings were still making lift, allowing the rolling of the wings during impact. The wingman's right wing impacted lead's tail, forcing the wingman's left (opposite) wing to move forward and therefore accelerate and therefore make more lift and fly upward. Up flew the A's left wing, inducing a right-roll. As the A rolled its wings toward vertical, the pilot did not input full left rudder. Note: An airplane's rudder is the last control surface to be effective in a stall or as speed decreases. The ailerons (on the wings) lose effectiveness first, then the elevators (horizontal across the tail), then the rudder is last to lose effectiveness. Full left rudder might have kept the tail down as the wings went vertical and the A-model might have stayed right-side up and merely cartwheeled and/or spun on its belly shearing-off the landing gear, etc. Unfortunately, the situation developed so fast that the pilot in the A seems to not have been able to jam in full left rudder to keep the A right-side up. The rest is obvious from the photos and from video.

Again, my friend, an experienced military and WWII fighter operator, shuddered as he watched the video of this accident. Warbird fighter pilots RARELY perform formation landings, especially in dissimilar types such as a P-51D/P-51A pairing with differing weights, differing prop drag, and thus differing rates of deceleration. Another mistake was that lead touched-down first. He thus immediately decelerated as the wingman, still airborne, dove to land and thus accelerated. Watch the Blue Angels or Snowbirds perform their formation landings and you will see that the following aircraft always lands first and the leader is the last to touch down. That way, the formation decelerates from the rear and not from the front, as we see in the Oshkosh mishap.

This is not intended to unfairly criticize a dead pilot. Such accidents can happen to anyone and they often do. Any smart pilot who hears about a crash shudders and realizes but for the grace of God...

[Norm reynolds]

This is a real lost these guys did what they did best and loved doing so so sad
I found this and I think I am hooked
http://www.jetsrc.com/videos/15smoke.wmv

[nuch_ss396]

Hey Norm!

Right behind you on that one. I think I'm hooked as well.
Think I'll build an F-14 Tomcat though

Steve

[SS427]

Just an update. I was just sent this video of the crash.
P-51 crash

It concerns me as many in the Warbird community have said that these two would not do a formation landing especially with disimiliar aircraft, however the video appears to me that was what they were doing. Some also think it could have been prop wash and/or a blind spot. If indeed there was a blind spot (which there would have been in Gerry's case) it surprises me he did not shoot a go around. Whatever the case, both these men are/were seasoned pilots and would never have put either in harms way intentionally. I will wait patiently until the NTSB figures out what went wrong. Regadless, it was still an accident.

Also, I stated earlier the D-model involved in the crash was "Dazzling Donna". It was in fact Dazzling Donna but painted up as "Stang" for an upcoming movie titled "Thunder Over Reno". I am not sure that the filming was completed prior to the crash as both planes are in the movie.

Regardless, it will be a great tribute, and I am sure dedicated to someone very special in the P-51 community. Gerry was instrumental as was Bob Odegard in the initial restoration of the P-51C Red Tail that I also helped restore as well as the re-restoration after engine failure/crash that took the life of a good friend Don Hinz.

[427TJ]

The latest explanation I have heard is that they were performing individual landings after flying a five-ship formation for a photo shoot. The lead aircraft, a Sea Fury, led the formation overhead the runway and each aircraft performed a "pitch-out" for spacing prior to landing one by one. The lead aircraft landed on "brick one," meaning the first part of the runway, forcing the second airplane, an F2G Corsair, to go-around due to insufficient spacing on the runway. (The leader was supposed to land farther down to provide spacing for the number two airplane, etc.) So the number two plane goes around and the number three, the yellow-nosed P-51D, lands. The mishap green-winged P-51A performed his final turn and apparently had lost sight of the preceding airplane, the P-51D, and had come very close to the 51D making it look like a formation landing. It seems that the mishap P-51A finally regained sight of the preceding 51D as he flared for landing. He may have tried to add power for a go-around but did not have room as he impacted the 51D's tail.

[nuch_ss396]

OK - This is one of my all time favorite USAF bombers.



It's the Convair B-58 Hustler. Our first mach 2 bomber!

Nuch

[nuch_ss396]

[ QUOTE ]
This is only speculation based on watching a video of the mishap..........
Any smart pilot who hears about a crash shudders and realizes but for the grace of God...

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill,

Thanks for the thorough analysis of what happened. I guess
those of us who are non-pilots never think about things such as
"like aircraft" being a factor. As an outsider, I'm just
wondering why two seasoned pilots wouldn't take this factor
into account during a maneuver like that.

Steve

[SS427]

In between the SCR10 and Gibb shows I stayed in Springfield, IL. As stated earlier in this thread I was very excited while watching the local news to see that Capitol Airport was being blessed with a B-17, B-24 and B-25 that we laying over for a few days in between air shows. Annie and I visited for several hours looking at the planes and talking to some of the people. I was amazed at how many ex B-17, B-24 and B-25 airmen had come to the airport to see the airplanes, one local man claiming to be a turret gunner from that very same B-17 (likely same nose art but not same airframe). At any rate, we could have stayed for
many more hours if not for the heat. The B-17 and B-24 were both doing run ups while we were there but our timing over the three days was never on and missed all the departure and arrivals. I came VERY close to buying a seat on the plane as that opportunity does not present itself very often and at $425 that was a pretty cheap seat in my opinion.