New Ford GT

[csx289]

Uh-Oh...not quiet any more around here, is it??? LOL

SO, can I stir the pot again? This is kinda fun. Les, tell us about those Carrera GT wrecks, like the one that started the class action suit against Porsche for selling defective cars with safety equipment that doesn't work? Just illustrating that nobody is perfect. And I think the Carrera GT was $440k or so vs. the 2005 Ford GT MSRP of $140k, and I think both Porsche dealers and Ford dealers were both trying to rip buyers off with ridiculous premiums on BOTH cars but now BOTH cars are experiencing a buyer's market? As near as I can figure, that is. I think the Carrera GT was also the subject of a fair amount of backlash from the press regarding the fact that it is really not that easy to drive, and recall even you telling me CGT stories about guys not being able to drive them and how they can't clear a curb cut to get into gas stations, etc. I think the Ford/Saleen/Whatever GT is actually a more user-friendly car...it has a regular clutch and is not as "hyper" as a CGT in general. Apples and oranges, IMHO.

On the other hand, my Ford GT (just reading the side of the car, can't you hear my lips moving?) must be safe because when I had a question about what the torque values were for the wheels I had to go through about 22 pages of info on the stereo system and then about 16 pages on how to secure a child seat in my Ford GT, before getting to a little blurb in the back of the owners manual about the wheel torques. Hey, does Ford know their buyers or what? All we care about is strapping our kids into the car and cranking tunes, man! LOL

Ok, fire suit on, ready for testing.

Colin

[njsteve]

Hey, Colin, as you were regaling us with the story of your cold weather drive it reminded me of some of the early Viper TSBs. There was one for the same problem: A supplier glitch at the factory resulted in oversized heater hose clamps. Dodge used the spring type ones and they were known to -you guessed it, blow off under high pressure.

In the early days I would go each week to my local dealer and peruse the technical service bulletins online, and there were tons of them. My dealer was great, whenever there was a warranty issue, they would supply me the parts and let me do the work in my own garage if I wanted to. Or have me just hold onto the parts in the event we needed to do the job later. They would also let me keep the old parts if the factory never called for their return -such as when there was a TSB on the the toupette (the factory soft top) and they let me keep three of the old ones, including the remnants of one that ejected at 80 mph. I also had several sets of the alloy side pipe covers after they issued a TSB on those. And as for parts availability, Dodge had a mandatory overnight system for any Viper replacement part. If you ordered it and it was anywhere in the parts pipeline, you had it within a day. Amazing.

Dodge was very attentive to their Viper Owners and yes I used that voucher to buy a 96 GTS coupe. Dodge had a list of all of the then current, state-by-state DMV registrations for each currently registered Viper. You had to still own the car to be eligible for a voucher. They sent a application letter to each of those names. You had to respond on a certain date to get the actual voucher. The way it worked was that the voucher was non-transferable and only useable by you. It was a very well thought out system: The car had to be ordered under your name. And if the car arrived and you did not purchase it (such as if the dealer was just paying you to be a straw purchaser for his allocation) the car would be retrieved by Dodge and reallocated to a person on the waiting list. It was essentially an allocation ticket: if the dealer didn't sell you the car at a reasonable price, you simply took your ticket and went to another dealer that would and that first dealer was SOL and lost the allocation. I think I paid $1000 over factory FACTORY INVOICE for Project Pit Viper (which was still $4000 under MSRP) and the reason I gave him the $1000 was he was required to purchase the special rack of tools from Dodge to be eligible to have one of their technicians certifed to be a Viper Tech. (And I knew I was going to be using most of the tools anyway) As for the GTS in '96 I think I paid $500 over invoice for that car with the voucher ticket (from the same little small town dealer in Florida).

Those Viper Invitationals were a hoot. My wife and I spent our first wedding anniversary at the first Viper Owners Invitational (you try telling your wife you're taking her to Detroit for your anniversary and see what she says!) -she actually loved it! and Dodge gave us (my wife) an award for attending.

[Xplantdad]

Very interesting information...keep it coming!

[Les Quam]

Colin,
Sorry to hear about your limp hose I have heard you have a problem with keeping your hose firm and not spewing , shall we say prematurely??? LOL LOL LOL

That Saleen/Ford GT/Colin/ limp hose problem was pretty common on the 2005 GTs but I am surprised to hear(or am I not surprised?)that by the 2006 model year the hoses still keep falling off. Also curious why you the customer need to spend about 150K on a car and then you the customer have to open the engine compartment and re-tighten and re-torque everything before you drive it??? After spending a buck fifty is it unreasonable to rely on Ford to have done some quality control prior to sending it to you?

The CGT wrecks were caused by the drivers. A car can't wreck itself. The Porsche dealers( please note I have not defended or recommended them)are not screening the prospective CGT buyer and selling them to whomever can write a check even if they can't even drive a manual trans.

When I bought my CGT, Ford GTs were selling in the 300K range many dealers at this time were paying 275K to other dealers and selling them to their appreciative and very gullible customers for 300K or more. Several Ford GTs were selling at auctions we both attended for 300K or more as well. The CGT MSRP was 448K but I paid less than 400K out the door. Therefore at the time it cost me about 100K more to get a 605 HP Porsche than the Saleen/Ford GT which I thought was reasonable.

The CGT clutch is easy to drive for anyone with a little skill and experience. I hope someday you have a chance to experience it for yourself. The HP on the CGT is actually understated and the CGT is indeed a car that requires all your attention to drive since it has no Ferrari like computer aids and with it's technology revs up to it's redline quicker perhaps than any street car in automotive history. The exhaust note on the CGT is not to be believed it is the nearest we will ever come to driving a car designed to race at Le Mans but sold on the street. It is a car designed and built for a small group of prospective buyers(600 to America) who still appreciate the art of driving. It was not designed for everyone but was indeed built in house by Porsche as is the Viper and Vette and Ferrari, as is EVERY respectable sports car that has ever been built. Interesting to note that both the Ford GT and the Porsche CGT were a two year model run and yet 600 or less CGTs were built for North America and about 4500 Saleen/Ford GTs will be built for North America. I wonder which one received the most quality control and attention?

The lawsuit you mentioned I assume is the one I faxed you to your office for your magazine article? I am not aware of any others pending?

In that suit a good friend of mine who left a wife and a six month old baby and who had no previous driver training or racing experience whatsoever crashed his CGT head on into a wall at about 150 MPH at the California speedway after another car was waved from the pits directly in front of my friend and both he AND HIS PASSENGER in the CGT who also had a wife and young child both were killed. The PASSENGERS family is suing the track, the event organizers , the flagman who waved the car onto the track , the guy driving the car who pulled onto the track and of course Porsche. In other words they are suing everyone possible not just Porsche as you allude to. It is the passengers family who has filed suit not the driver of the Porsche as you were well aware.

I am surprised and pretty disappointed that you would even attempt to use the deaths of two young men one being a good friend of mine to somehow further your cause in this "friendly" debate over the Ford GT? If this is your payback for the race challenge I made to you it is a pretty cheap shot IMHO? Or perhaps my friends death is still a sensitive subject with me since I miss my friend terribly and still grieve for his family and daughter. If I took your statment the wrong way I apologize.

In regard to your discussion about us racing at a Barber Dodge weekend while you were attending Mopars at the strip. I raised the idea because after Barrett Jackson you told me you were going to come out to the Mopar show this year after missing it last year. I was looking forward to seeing(dating) you again and thought we could race in the morning and go to the Mopar show in the afternoon which didn't sound like such a terrible weekend date to me? As you know we have been engaged in a debate over who would be quicker on a race track for the past couple of years and I always believed that Barber Dodge with it's identically prepared race cars and safe racing format would be a fun way to resolve the
debate? I certainly meant no disrespect towards your racing skills and very impressive career.

After about 17 years of racing in one form of motorsports or another(not including Karting) I am pushing 50 years old now and I am too old and beat up and have had two many broken bones and concussions(which explains a lot doesn't it LOL)to go out and try to figure out how to beat the guys with the cheater motors and worry about why the set up on my car needs to be changed every couple of hours as the track changes. I like Barber Dodge because they provide the race cars, they provide the mechanic's , they provide the trackside amenities. I spend more time having fun and socilaizing with my friends then setting the camber on my race car or worrying why another driver who allegedly has the same HP in his as mine pulls away from me as we both go down the straight? It's arrive and drive and have fun at Barber Dodge and they also provide the best racing training of any format in the world IMHO. Michael Andretti's kid Marco just finished the race series and I figure Michael could have sent his kid to any race series in the world but chose barber Dodge so that was a pretty good endorsement IMHO. It's more important to me at my stage in life to have fun at the races then trying to figure out how to squeeze a little more HP out of my Vinatge car. BTW I would have loved to have raced vintage muscle cars when I was your age but unfortunatley today's vintage cars were not vintage then and still were all acvtively being raced. LOL LOL LOL LOL

In regard to buying Charley's GT 350 vintage racer to race against you guys I just bought Charley's 1963 Ford Galaxie wagon that ought to be enough to handle Colin(juggernaut) Cramer on the track? LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

NOTE: Sorry about the excessive LOLs in my post but someone whose name I will not mention(Cramer)sent me a blistering private email indicating my posts lacked enough LOLs when I was referring to him on this forum. LOL LOL

Now if all you Ford GT lovers can coax Gloria back into this debate I might have some actual competition? The juggernaut is a total weenie lightweight. Send in the first string and put this Cramer guy back where he belongs on the bench. LOL LOL LOL

[Xplantdad]

LOL?

[csx289]

Les,
I in no way meant any disrespect to your friend or his passenger in the CGT wreck, you know that was not my intention. I mentioned the wreck as after you faxed me the lawsuit it seems as if Porsche is being held to task for actually putting your friends and others in harms way due to some inherent flaws in the CGT? There have been other violent crashes with CGT's, and in the case of the lawsuit car, you had told me the seat belts failed and neither air bag deployed. Plus, the car burst into flames as I recall? It was a horrendus and terribly unfortunate incident that hopefully some good will come from. Not the least of which I hope some regulation with these races and club track days in regard to the i.q. level of flagmen and officials. Remember the wreck my car was in at Road America last year? Oh, yes, you remind me all the time, I am sure you do. LOL. That wreck was blamed on the flagman as well. But my point here by mentioning the CGT incident is not only do all of these high profile cars have problems, but also are dangerous. In your prior post you pleaded that I NOT drive the GT on the track. Again, my point is ANYTHING can kill you on the track, even a CGT as awesome as they are.

I am sorry if you think I was disrespecting the deaths of two of your friends and you know I feel terrible for their spouses and young children. I have not only had many friends killed racing, but unfortunately have been there when a few have, as in right next to them. I have watched my buddy's wife get killed in her Mini Cooper at RA in the kink when she spun clockwise during practice and a much faster car hit her broadside immediately in her RHD car, killing her. I have helped put the tent over another buddy's GT1 car when he was killed and it was too guesome to let spectators see and they couldn't get him out of the wreckage. I could go on, but you get the point. If anybody can relate it is me.

I also apologize, I don't remember saying I was going to Mopars at the Strip as I have never been there and never intend to go. I was going to a few years ago when I aksed if I could stay at your place and corrupt your family, but I did not make it as you know.

The thing about Barber Dodge is it does make a level playing field. However, it also is very competitive, more than vintage racing where there is no trophy and everybody (generally) is there for fun. That is why I quit SCCA racing, it is like work. We have a lot of fun vintage racing and it takes a lot more skill to pilot an old car on bias ply tires, plus you get to hang them out really well and the sound/feel is great. There is a huge house cleaning going on in Group 6, they are kicking the cheaters out and pushing "Era Correct" cars, pumping motors to check displacement, etc. I think we will see a very level playing field soon and that is much needed. It was indeed getting crazy and out of hand. For example, my 2 vintage cars are both era correct, the Shelby is 297 CID and the T/A is 306 CID, with period correct suspension, tires, brakes, etc. Charley's car is as well, as far as I know

All I am saying is you should make an effort to join us at least once this year and have some fun. That is what vintage racing is supposed to be about, not who is faster, etc. Heck, you are welcome to come drive my car for the open track at SAAC 31 for a session and see if you get hooked. It's a Ford, so your tatoo matches. LOL

Now lay off these damn posts, I have work to do today!

Colin

[Les Quam]

Colin,
I never told you the CGT burst into flames because it didn't. I never told you the seat belts failed because they didn't. The passenger side airbag as you can tell from the pictures I sent you to look at may not have fully deployed?

As a matter of fact the carbon fiber moncoque was remarkably intact after hitting a concrete wall head on at 150 MPH. Although the occupants were wearing helmets neither had a HANs type head restraint which may have saved their lives?

I am really curious about why "you never intend" to come to Mopars at the strip? It's one of the biggest Mopar shows and drag race events in the country and as the number one buyer and seller of classic Muscle cars in North America I am real surprised your not "ever intending" to come to the show to look for the best rust free Mopars in the west????

Have we in Vegas done something to offend you? LOL
Is our city not good enough for you?? LOL
Does our Mopar show not attract enough premium cars for you?
Is our drag race event not exciting enough for you? LOL
Don't we have enough nightlife here to compete with Milwaukee???? LOL
Do you have something against Mopars perhaps????LOL

Enquiring minds want to know? LOL

[JoeG]

Good mornin fellas ...I've got Guinness on the phone--just 48hrs more and you've guys would have set a New World Punch and Judy Record .......