New Ford GT

[csx289]

No John, I'm saving up to buy a lake house next to yours.

Hell, everybody knows I used Lester's money for the GT! Now I think Les should come out of the closet and tell us about HIS supercar, with initials "CGT". No mods needed, or so I understand.

Oh, and I'll run any 510 HP Viper any day with a bone stock Ford GT. I've driven plenty of Vipers and they do feel mean. Likely because they are like a real muscle car and get loose in the back and make you feel like a rock star. The Ford GT is like glue compared to trying to put the power down in a Viper. And the (supposed) engineering goal was a solid and smooth torque curve, like an electric motor, according to a book on the GT development I just read. OK, I just looked at the pictures, but so what.LOL

I bet the neighbor's car is stock and just has some miles on it, maybe a muffler. I wouldn't think a Ford dealer would swap a blower pulley. I have been told 500-1000 miles is mandatory to get all the power out of the GT. At least according to the guys on www.fordgtforum.com

So how about a Viper / GT shootout at the Supercar Reunion? I'll drive my car in from Milwaukee if Les drives in from Vegas! LOL

Colin

[Les Quam]

Juggernaut,
My Vipers are all the 450HP second generation cars. I was referring to the third generation 2005 510HP Viper which I think would easily handle your stock Ford GT kit car as would a stock Z06 Vette IMHO. Not only that what are the chances your GT will be stock by next week?

By the way since you are talking about coming out of the closet and outed us (not that there is anything wrong with that)just make sure everyone knows I am the pitcher and you are the catcher. LOL LOL

[csx289]

Hey Brokeback Quamo,
I'll drag race a Viper, any stock street Viper, heads up with the GT stock. I have to log some miles before I mod it anyway. All it has are K&N filters at this point. Better yet, let's run a road course heads up. When I do open track events and the Viper guys show up we usually get charged a gravel fee because the Vipers drag it all out of the runff areas and then pick it out of their wounds in the paddock. LOL

Here is a link to a guy running his GT in the 1/4 mile. 11.19 @ 134 - yes, mild mods, it has a 18psi pulley, computer tune, and Ford Racing exhaust. BUT, look at how the guy just dogs it out of the hole. Reminds me of how I drag race. That is drag race as in with a car, not when you dress up and race your Vegas buddies down the street in their womens clothing.

http://videos.streetfire.net/player....5-D669923F6C64

Now you also have to explain the Juggernaut to these guys. This ought to be good. LOL

Colin

[Xplantdad]

Need to add the disclaimer about the ****ing WOW at the end of the video...

That car flies! I want a ride!

[Les Quam]

Juggernaut,
I will take that road course challenge just pick a track between our two states all I will need is a 450HP Viper or my 450 HP GT2 to out run that Ford kit car. Between the two of us only one of us has actually raced a Viper on a road course in a challenge series and it ain't you so me thinks you have little or no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Vipers? I also saw pictures of your vintage racing driving handy work at Road America last summer when your vintage 69 TA was piled up on top of 28 other cars. So I think people in glass gravel traps perhaps shouldn't throw gravel???
LOL LOL LOL LOL

I think the last time you drove a Viper was in 1996 when you blew yours up during a burn out contest? Try that with your Ford and see if they honor the warranty? Dodge was always great about letting you break it on Sunday at the race track or during a burn out contest and fixing it under warranty on Monday. Ask your Ford buddies how Ford is about paying for warranty claims after you run 18 PSI of boost and describe it as a "minor mod"?

So you Ford guys call 18 PSI of boost a "minor" mod now to get that turdbox to run like the preproduction cars? I guess we now know what boost the preproduction Ford GTs were running eh? "Minor mod" at 18 PSI that's like calling a nuclear meltdown at a nuclear reactor a "minor problem"

Your the Juggernaut you explain it to them.

[Mr70]

[csx289]

OK, First: I think it needs to be said that Les and I have made a hobby out of busting each others you-know-whats on a daily basis, and this is nothing new nor some kind of war. Fact of the matter is the little guy always thinks he's right but I always KNOW I am

Now, on to Lester's latest rant. Yes, I did blow up a Viper trans in 1996 doing a burnout. I also owned about 4 Vipers since then and have driven one on the track as recently as 8 months ago when a guy wanted my opinion on how his car was on the track. A Viper is a good car, and was THE car to have for many years. However, the technology has been surpassed and there are better chassis designs out there now, wether it be a Ford GT or the new Z06, etc.
I will take a heads up race with any stock 450 HP Viper against a stock 550HP Ford GT any day. We both need R compound tires and the ability to put in race brake pads so we don't kill ourselves. Remember, Top Gear raced a STOCK Ford GT on street tires against a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale on a road course and the GT won. The 360 CS is a purpose built road race car with sticky tires, etc. It is my honest opinion that a 1998 Viper couldn't run with either car, but, I am sure Les will fire up his blowtorch and post his opinions soon. LOL

As far as the Group 6 wreck at Road America last year, YES, indeed that was my car in the wreck and I was racing that weekend. However, the driver that was in the car during the wreck was my co-driver, Grant Maiman. Grant is one of the best drivers in recent years to come from the USA. He drove in the Red Bull F1 series in Europe last year, won the Skip Barber national series,is a Skip Barber racing school instructor, and is generally regarded as a stellar driver. He had my car stopped on the track when it got hit. It would have happened to anybody, even a pro like Les. And for the record, it was a 17 car pile up, not 28 as Les states. Let's just say this is a sore subject around here as that weekend should not have happened and it was an expensive exercise for guys like me that are still rebuilding their cars.

As far as my driving abilities, I have never claimed to be a great driver. I have won SCCA Championships in my Formula Ford racing days, and I used to race two vintage cars, a group 5 57 Corvette and a Group 6 Trans Am Dodge Dart (Jerry Titus car). I have been a driving instructor for different clubs since 1990, and do get a lot of track time. I have never raced in the Viper Challenge, but, I think it can't be any more competitive than Vintage Trans Am in Group 6...and I know Vipers are easier to drive than a T/A car on bias ply tires!!!

As far as minor mods on a car, I think any sort of computer reflash, cat back exhaust, or pulley change is relatively minor? Cams, head work, headers, turbos, opening the engine, etc. constitue as major? Any force fed car built in the last 25 years has been prone to be modified for more boost out of the box, in my opinion. Look at Buick Grand Nationals. How many guys didn't tweak the waste gate on those things, or drop the catalytic converter, etc.??

Just my opinions. So, grab the popcorn, Les will be awake soon! LOL

Colin

[Belair62]

We know you guys bust each others chops...My money is still on you...I won't ride with you anymore...you have issues on congested roads

[Les Quam]

I love a good trash talk and to talk smack about cars as well as the next guy especially with Sports Car Market Magazines new golden boy columnist Colin Cramer but at some point we need to keep it real and filter out the opinions not supported by any tangible data. I am quite frankly astonished that the juggernaut is so uninformed about the current state of late model supercars. Perhaps once something other than muscle cars is discussed you are like a little boy who has lost his mommy??? LOL

Let's keep it real and talk exculsively about factual data. The current third generation Viper has finished in the top three in the SCCA world Challenge series for the past several years. I think they have even won the Manufacturers championship a couple of times as well? The Dodge Viper competiton coupe used in the World Challenge series has the exact same chassis and brakes as sold on the street Viper. The only thing that is changed from a Comp coupe to a street Viper are the wheels and tires and safety equipment is added and interior deleted.

More importantly all the Viper Comp Coupes are PRIVATELY raced with little or no factory support. Yet they are able to defeat the factory World Challenge teams of Porsche, Cadillac, BMW, and Audi. LETS NOT UNDERSTATE THAT FACT AND HOW HARD IT IS FOR PRIVATEERS TO BEAT FACTORY BACKED RACING TEAMS!!! Yet the Viper consistently does this and unlike the factory teams the Viper Comp Coupe is amazingly close to the car sold on the street. The current Viper and the second generation 450HP vipers have a clear race proven history and are well sorted out cars as is the Z06 Corvette.
I don't need to remaind the juggernaut about the second generation Vipers championships at Le Mans and Daytona by team Oreca.

As far as I know the current Ford GT has won nothing and races nowhere I would appreciate it if the juggernaut could direct me to where I might find some actual data about the current Ford GTs racing history? I would also love to see some information on the Competition version of the Ford GT if one exists??

Therefore to describe the current Ford GT as a road racer on par with the Viper, Z06 Vette, and Ferrari 360 challenge car is simply ridiculous and not supported by any data I am aware of? It is unreasonable to claim that a Ford GT because it ran a quicker lap time than a 360 Ferrari on one day is therefore in the same league as the Ferrari.That Ford GT was a pre production 600 HP Ford GT that tested against a 400HP Ferrari 360 Challenge car. The 360 has 400HP and is down at least 150HP to a production version Ford GT and was down at least 200HP to the pre production Ford GT used in all the magazine tests.

Ford has copied the GT from the earlier 1960s era car and through marketing claims it is a road racer. However when the production Ford GT was finally sold to the public it had to be recalled immediately and owners were told to NOT EVEN DRIVE THEIR cars to the dealership because the control arms were failing under hard street use. All the Ford GTs had to be towed back to Ford.

Thats right boys and girls the car Colin claims is equal to the Ferrari, Viper and Vette had to be towed back to every dealership to have all the control arms replaced because the original ones were cracking under hard STREET driving conditions. Whew that is some road racer juggernaut?

Then after the 2005 Ford GT owners finally got their cars back months later from the dealership they had to bring them back again under yet another recall. This time the rear main seals were failing and spewing more oil than the Exxon Valdez again from hard street use!!! The Production Ford GT never even made it to the track before the control arms failed and the rear main seals blew up. Yet Ford and it's army of marketing guru's have somehow convinced the public the Ford GT is a race proven supercar the equal to a Ferrari or Viper or Vette????

Now the juggernaut showed us a video of a Ford GT at the drag strip with "minor mods" of 18 PSI boost turning an
11.1 at 134 MPH. In order to turn that 11.1 that GT had to have a new exhaust, the computer reprogrammed the boost increased to 18PSI by use of a pulley and probably some cold air induction work.

But I am confused? When the Ford GT was brought to the automotive writers for road testing it turned in the mid 11s in the quarter mile yet the April 2006 issue of Road and Track lists the Ford GT as running a 12.2 at 121.6 MPH. What happened to all that power? Why aren't the current production Ford GTs running mid 11s like the test cars??
Road and Track lists the Viper at 12.1 at 119 MPH and the viper is giving up 50HP if you believe Fords claim that the GT is a 550 HP car in production trim?

The Ford GT MSRP is 149,900 the Viper 81,496 the Z06 vette 65,000 and the Vette also turns 12.2 yet gives up 50HP to the vaunted Ford GT. But wait there is more! The December 2005 Motor Trend magazine also tested the Ford GT against the 2006 Viper and 06 Z06 and what did their tests reveal???

The Ford GT turned a blistering 11.5 second quarter mile pass to the pathetic Vipers 12.0 second pass in the quarter and yet when tested on a 1.6 mile road course the Viper was a full THREE SECONDS quicker around the track then the Ford GT. The Vette was a second faster than than Viper around the track.

IMHO the Ford GT was created for Ford marketing purposes and is more show than go in production form. It has no race history in it's current form and Ford has no plans to race the car or produce a comp version. If the juggernaut wants to call it a drag racer because he can't plausibly call it a real road car it is still no faster in production trim then a stock Viper or Vette for double the price.

As to the juggernauts driving skills I have no idea? But what I say to every bench racing trash talking internet forum speed racer is lets meet at a track in identically prepared cars under supervision and let the race speak for itself. It just so happens that the Barber Dodge race series will be in Vegas at the end of March when the juggernaut will be in Vegas for Mopars at the strip. Barber Dodge offers identically prepared race cars and safe racing. I haven't raced in the series in five years nor I have driven the new outside track they are having the races on. Seems fair to me?

As they say at Barber Dodge arrive ,drive and shut up because when the flag drops the BS stops. If we are going to be assigned the same race group we need to sign up NOW.

[Johnny Horsepower]

wow, could waste some serious time on that website