427 Baldwin Motion Nova For Sale

[Racefan]

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I don't blame those who want to remain private about thier rides, I wouldn't want to be surrounded by sharks trying to get my ride just to turn it around for a profit.

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Everything negative in this thread revolves around "flipping a car" or making a profit. So, I think it important to define a couple of things for future reference so everyone can be on the same page.

1) How long must one keep a car after a purchase to not be considered "flipping"?

2) Are there acceptable circumstances where a person can "flip" a car in order to not take heat from those who do not "flip" cars?

3) What is an acceptable ceiling of profit which can be made off a car to not be scorned (a percentage will do)?

4) Is it accepted that if we are not to purchase cars to "turn a profit", would it then stand to reason that we should never purchase a car below its current value (ie.-Seller is looking for $12,000 for a car we know to be worth $85,000. We should therefore offer Seller A $85,000 because that is the value and, after all, we aren't trying to come out ahead)?

When I was a kid, the way to get a nice car went as follows.
1) Buy a heap, fix it up and sell it for a profit to buy a nicer car.

2) Buy a nicer car, and repeat step 1.

3) Repeat step 2.

4) Repeat all steps until desired car is within price range.

Obviously when someone "flips" a car there is a buyer who is willing to pay the cost of the car, so there is a happy buyer. The seller makes some extra money to use for whatever purposes he/she has need for, so there is a happy seller. Who gets hurt in this again? Not the car....it doesn't really care who owns it (remember, it is steel and has no soul). Not the buyer, they purchased a car for what they thought was fair (or they wouldn't have bought it). Not the seller, because the extra money allows for something else to be purchased/saved/invested/whatever.

So, "flipping" a car may be the only way that an average guy, like myself, could ever own one of these cars that many of you have owned 10 or more of (hmmmm......how many were "flipped"?). If that is the wrong way to go about earning enough disposable income to obtain one of these dream cars, then I guess it could be surmised that it is wrong for a guy like me to own one.

I just want to be clear on this, I am sure the torching will now commence.

[COPO]

Phil, you make some great points and that's the beauty of a capitalistic society. If a deal is consummated, then both buyer and seller have to agree and frankly that's all that should matter. If not, then someone needs to go back and answer your questions to get the point. That is exactly how fortunes are often made in America, whether it is real estate, stocks, art, cars, etc.

[Racefan]

But, I am constantly reading about how all of this buying/selling is hurting the hobby. I don't really see it. I am not trying to raise everyone's dander....I just honestly want to understand. I want to know if I were to find myself in a place where I could begin this process to get to the 68 Yenko I so badly want, will people view me negatively when I achieve my end goal? Will my dream purchase of Goldberg's Yenko be looked at negatively because of how I achieved that goal?

[jfkheat]

I don't see anything wrong with buying a car that you know you can "flip" at a profit. Say I look in the local sales paper and see a 69 Chevelle SS listed for $10,000. I go look at the car and see that it is a nice car that I can resell for $20,000. I will buy that car and resell it. Obviously the seller is happy because he got what he wanted for the car. I am happy because I can make some extra money. The person I sell it to is happy or he wouldn't have bought the car. It this not what the classic and muscle car dealers are doing? They will not buy a car if they know they can't profit from the deal.
James

[Racefan]

Three for, none against. I am keeping score.

BTW- if no one out there has ever "flipped" a car I'd like to hear from you. I can say I haven't, except for a 78 Datsun B2000. Made $300 on that jewell.

[Jeff H]

I think the reason people say flipping a car is ruinning the hobby is because all the flipping runs the price up. But I don't think it's really the flipping that runs the prices up as much as the prospect of flipping for a profit. That leads to everyone jumping on the original parts and running those prices up. It's not as much about flipping as it is about how one goes about "acquiring" the car to be flipped. That's where it gets cut-throat. Personally, I have never made any money on any car or truck I've had(at least 25-30 vehicles) but I did make $200 on an old Boston Whaler after using it for 4 years!

[Racefan]

But, I don't understand how "flipping" a car runs the price up. The value of something is determined by the marketplace. The car is still worth what someone is willing to pay, this is not determined by how many people own it or how long an owner has it. What runs the price up is the prices buyers are willing to pay. So, therefore, a prime suspect for blame would be the buyers at BJ. But, not only do we not get angry with them.....we have live reports from our friends letting us know how crazy the prices are. We have just heard that a new world record price for a Deuce has been set. Is not the buyer single-handedly responsible for increasing the cost of all Deuces sold from this point forward? Now, I am not attacking anyone personally (I don't even know who bought it)-- just making a point.

[Jeff H]

Take for example this 1970 BM Nova(if it was real). Say that a true enthusiast bought it for $25K and put $50K into restoring it. They have a $75K car but no interest in selling it. So a BM Nova is worth $75-100K. But if a flipper grabs it for $25K and flips it right away for $50K. Then the next guy puts $50K into it and flips it for $150K. The next guy bought it with the intent that it will be worth $200K in a year and he sells it for that. But you can't really use that example very well. Musclecars have become an investment just like real estate. So there will always be a flipper(investor) looking to purchase and would be willing to outpay the enthusiast. There are people that make a living restoring cars and flipping them, that's what their business is and there's nothing wrong with that. But today, there seems to be many types of buyers with different reasons for buying and therefore different price ranges as well. One way to look at is if these cars did not go up in value, nobody would be restoring them the right way because it would be a losing proposition. I just say blame it on the Hemi Cuda conv guys.

[GTO_DON]

Barrett-Jackson is the real problem here! Dealers are to blame also for going on fishing expeditions with astronomical price tags looking for that big fish and boy if they get one guy lookout because every other car like it just went up. All i here now after one of these auctions are "BOY WHATS MINE WORTH NOW?" Im sick of it to be honest.

[Belair62]

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If anyone is wondering, no my car is not for sale, I'll just keep it in my garage and drive it at 3 o'clock in the morning.


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I swear I just heard satellites repositioning !!!