Rebodied cars and do they get certified

[RichSchmidt]

I see where you are going with your post,but you have to remember that all but a very few of the most valuable supercars actually have what could be considered a "restorable" skin.Basically all thats left out there on the unrestored supercar market are rusted out hulks that are being pulled out of the mud in junkyards,and hacked up race cars that have nothing but their original firewall,roofskin and doorjambs intact.People are still trying to restore these cars.We arent talking about some cars with a few litle rust holes and some dents,we are talking about cars that are damaged so bad that they often dont have enough structure left to them to allow the doors to be opened without the body breaking in half.You can replace any single part of a car's body and it is O.K.,but of you replace all of those parts together it is wrong.You mention these supercars as if they were people,but they are not.Unlike people,cars can exist as any sort of comglomeration of parts,and here are some scenerios.

Car one is a "restored original".The original car had extensive rust and collisoin damage which is typical of most 35 year old cars.During the repair of this damage,the car had it's entire florpan replaced with a chinese repop,it had both full quarters replaced by NOS pieces,it had the rear frame sections replaced by chinese repops,it had the trunk floor and dropiffs replaced,it had the roofskin replaced,it had the toeboards replaced,the tail panel and both inner and outer wheelhouses were also replaced,it had both full rockers replaced with full repops,and it had the upper cowl area replaced at which time the VIN and cowl tag had to be reattached onto the replaced upper cowl box.When the job was done,the only original sheet metal on this car would be the lower portion of the firewall,the litle scrap of sheet metal around the trunk weahterstrip,and the rear kickup panel.This is pretty typical of the restoration involved on a 35 year old car.When it is done,the expert craftsmen who performed the work will make sure that every spot weld and every swath of overspray is as close to original as possible.

Car number 2 started out as an equally damaged supercar.Instead of replacing each part one at a time,the owner extracted the few useable parts from his original car and discarded the remainder into the dumpster{which is where all these parts from the first car ended up}.Now the difference is that instead of spending 2 years and endless dollars trying to recreate what GM made 30 years ago,he goes on a seatch for an original unrestored and rust free 6 cylinder car.He then atached all his remaining parts to the 6 cylinder body,sends it out to be cleaned and then refinishes it just as was done in car #1.Now however instead of having to guess how many spot welds held the inner and outer wheelhouses together,and having to try and replicate the spacing of each weld,and replicateing the brushmarks of the seamealer,he has a car with parts that actually left GM 35 years ago in assembled form.

So which car is a more acurrate depcition of the original.

Car number 1 is totally legal since each panel was replaced one at a time despite the fact that most of the parts werent even made in American let alone 35 years old.Car number 2 is a fraud and should be banished to the junkyard where it should be shredded before it can ever possible confuse anybody into believing it is original.

Of course in a perfect world,all restored cars would be time capsule survivors that required nothing but a fresh coat of wax and some armorall to be in show winning condition.In reality,all but about 10 percent of all the original supercars were in the condition of the cars mentioned above.Maybe in the opinion of some people,these car should both be destroyed to make the true survivors more valuable,but as long as it is O.K. to replace any single piece on one of those survivors,you will have a hard time telling the owners of cars 1 and 2 that they cant replace all of the peices at the same time.

[camarojoe]

Without question its car #1. Its got lots of replacement stuff, but its still the car you started with... Car # 2 is a rebody, and the original car is in the dumpster...what you made with car #2 is basically a clone with supercar tags.

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
Car # 2 is a rebody, and the original car is in the dumpster...what you made with car #2 is basically a clone with supercar tags.

[/ QUOTE ]

A rebody, yes, due to replacing that magic firewall part of the shell, but how can it be called a clone if it has the original engine/tranny/rear that corresponds with the VIN?

[Mr70]

I call that a Transplant.

[camarojoe]

Its a clone because the car assigned that Vin, trim tag, and drivetrain are not with the car they came with, they are in a 6 cylinder car.

[Allen]

[ QUOTE ]
Its a clone because the car assigned that Vin, trim tag, and drivetrain are not with the car they came with, they are in a 6 cylinder car.

[/ QUOTE ]


With that sort of logic, it almost would seem that a "clone" of what was there originally would be when a replacement/restamped non-original drivetrain is installed in that original body. That's a replication of what was originally there, but isn't anymore. Blow the motor, replace it with something that appears to represent what was there, it's now a clone.

They didn't put the shells together any differently between a 6 cyl. Camaro/Nova and a big block SS or Yenko Camaro/Nova...... A shell is a shell is a shell..... It's that engine option on the order form and engineering bill of materials that made that VIN represent something special and drove all of other special hardware that accompanied it.

[camarojoe]

Maybe clone isn't the best choice of words since it at least has the correct tags on it, but the real car is gone and its definitely a rebody or "tag car". "Transplant" even works for me. I still will not ever be conviced a rebody using a non-supercar body is as good or better than fixing the REAL car... but do whatever makes you feel good... My personal definition of a rebody is pretty simple, and I will not ever be conviced that all you need to have a supercar is a set of tags and/or some driveline parts... but I guess some feel thats all you need.. I'm glad at least some people feel the same as I do .

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I know of a Yenko chevelle with another Yenko chevelle's drivetrain in it, what does that make it - a double yenko My head is starting to hurt!

[PeteLeathersac]

Hey....everyone's opinion will be different like in every car deal....but the facts need to be on the table come sale time. . Personal opinions too but a "firewalled" car seems wrong when the true intent becomes transfering the identity of one vehicle to another. . Starting from a cowl section with door posts or more is a different story as the true identity remains intact (and the true identity cowl isn't leftover as spare parts like a firewalled car would). . Certification being the original question, it would depend on what's been certified. . Isn't Ed's service just that the Vin is one of the cars and no inspection of what the car is now? . A person who's willing to put all the restoration, early accident or survivor facts on the table should still be able to be certified but allowing these facts to be known to more than a buyer and noted as such with the certification provided. . Again personal opinions here....not endorsed or affiliated with this station or any person living or dead....operators are standing by....have your charge card ready....opinions may change at midnight tomorrow. ~ Pete

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I agree with Joe, car #2 is simply a clone - the soul is gone. The original drivetrain is very important to me, second only to the original car's 'soul'. I don't care how much sheetmetal was replaced, as long as the orig. shell was used. The scenario of using the 6cyl body to dup the spot welds etc.. is simply a copout to save money. You save the bad cars with extra amounts of work/money because your hearts in it - not because of the payoff.

I might add that richschmidts %'s are bit off, it's more like 10% of the supercars are in this bracket as opposed to 90%. I have personally seen many unrestored supercars that were in very good condition. I also know of many more that are doing just fine, are unrestored, but the owners just want them left alone. So, there are quite a number of unrestored supercars out there that have never seen a muddy dump! I'm not tellin you where though