Rebodied cars and do they get certified

[PeteLeathersac]

Great situations of reference, both the real and supossed ones! . Again I'll say the intent to defraud would be an important one if a buyer expected sucess in litigation. . For sure it's a big grey area some don't want clarification on but the DMV definition above gives a good idea of how it would be looked at legally. . A tough point I see is the "creator" of the item in question is not necesarily the person commiting the fraud (whether he be the bodyman or orchestrator of the puzzle) if he keeps his records and facts open and discloses all at sale time. . When finished however, the person who titles or sells the item without filing the necessary DMV paperwork is who would be "looked poorly on" and always remember that old saying, ignorance of the law is no excuse! . With so many scenarios to consider, it's tough to draw a line anywhere? . A "firewall" car or any method thats true purpose is to transfer the Vin and hidden Vin is questionable....and if the car is so rusty, why is the firewall being welded into a nice body other than to transfer identity? . The biggest thing I get from this whole thread is, a genuine survivor car is worth a whole lot more than a restored car no mater how "perfect or correct" the restoration car is! ~ Pete

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

While we are exploring situations here:

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

[SS427]

[ QUOTE ]
While we are exploring situations here:

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect example Marlin! We think of nothing about these cars that were in fact repaired back in their infant days but the same job done today is taboo.

[PeteLeathersac]

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the proof is there to support the above, the intent to defraud is not there....yet! . Sounds like a "clipped" car which is cut/joined through the floors and A-pilars and a common repair shop situation. . So, here we are years later, do you now clean up the poor workmanship....probably, even though it "disguises" this repair fact further. . Just when you sell the car you need to pass this information on to the next owner and it's best to do this on paper so if he ever sells it without doing the same to the susequent buyer, he can't say he wasn't aware! ~ Pete

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

See, I do see something wrong with the 1.5 year old repair - in that, I would not want to own it! The original car is long gone, only the firewall (+some rocker & toe board material) remains. The intent was clearly not there, but it is still a firewalled car. It's very muddy waters here.

[camarojoe]

I agree 100% Marlin. IMO, a rebody is a rebody...period. It makes no difference when it was done, who did it, or who does or doesn't know about it. As much as people like to argue about it, the fact remains that no one REALLY thinks its ok to do anyhow. Those who do it generally keep very quiet that they did it, while at the same time, lots of supercars/musclecars have extensive panel replacement and thats rarely a big secret. In fact, its often used as a positive feature... how many ads list "New GM sheetmetal" as a selling factor? Lots. Thats because replacing alot of sheetmetal is WAY different than putting a firewall from one car onto a different car and calling it restored.

Once again, replacing sheetmetal and clipping a complete car and welding the firewall onto another one is not, was not, and will never be "the same thing" no matter how much folks try to tell themselves (or others) that it is. I have yet to see a car that had a useable firewall and tags, but NOTHING at all that was salvageable on it from the firewall back.

Hopefully my point is understood, because thats all i have to say on the matter. Everyone can "debate" the definition all they want, but in my mind, the difference between panel replacement and rebodying is rather clear.

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
While we are exploring situations here:

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't cars this badly damaged normally totalled by the insurance company? And, if someone pieces two cars together, a salvage title is issued? I just don't think this sounds like a realistic scenario.
-Sam

[71SSNova]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While we are exploring situations here:

A car has a firewall job done when it was only 1.5 years old as a repair while under insurance. The firewall effort was not concealed, and was just ripped across the floorboards - rockers and all. The original green paint is still visible on this blue car.

What is it? Is it acceptable as a repair? The motive at the time it was done was to repair it, not to defraud anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't cars this badly damaged normally totalled by the insurance company? And, if someone pieces two cars together, a salvage title is issued? I just don't think this sounds like a realistic scenario.
-Sam

[/ QUOTE ]

If they had insurance, you would think so, but what if they had influence with the insurance company.
I have a firewalled 70 Nova SS that I am parting out. I don't know why the original owner did what he did, may not have had the insurance to cover it, whatever the case, it does not have a salvaged title.
A little diffent situation though, it was firewalled somwhere after '86 and never put back together.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Very good point Sam. I forgot about Dan's car, but that is a perfect example to answer Sam's question. I don't know why the repair was done the way it was on some of these cars, but that is how they exist today.

My example is a real live Deuce, and the current owner bought it that way in '72 or so. It is of no consequence to him, he didn't do the damage or the firewall job.

So, somehow this level of repair is ok for some not for others, but Slim Shady's example of cowl patch panel repair is ok - or not?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Anyone recall this little gem of a story? What will this car be when it reappears?


Short update on the HH car;

The original owner of this car confirms that it was a Tuxedo Black, X11 Copo that was purchased from Wallace Chevrolet in Linden, NJ. The owner removed the VIN (616462)and Trim Tag many years ago, and junked the car. The owner retained the bill of sale, dash bezel, the doors, a fender and possibly the transmission. The owner told each of us the same story, that there was no body and it was junked 20 years ago in northern NJ. These items were for sale, however, approx. 6 people passed on the deal because there was no firewall - much less an entire car. One person considered buying the items as memorabilia, and to prevent a rebody, but the price was prohibitive for that purpose.

About a month ago, I received word that somebody in NY claimed to have bought these items from the orig owner. Additionally, the claim is that the original body was found and pulled from a junk yard after 20+ years even though the orig owner did not remember where the body went. The plan is to restore the car, not sure if it will be done as the HH or factory.

Take it for what it's worth, but beware

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