Rebodied cars and do they get certified

[737Driver]

If all people were honest it would, in fact, be a miracle.

So, if an original ZL1 Camaro is discovered and it needs extensive sheet metal, people will 'stay away from it' or 'it will be worth a ton less money'? That doesn't seem reasonable to me, but, I am not as tuned in to these cars as well as most here. Is it really documented that rare cars (i. e. COPO Camaro's) that are the 'Real Deal' that need sheet metal are not desireable? If a COPO that is all original brings 200G's, one that has a beautiful resto using some donor sheet metal is worth what? Both have the original drive train and are documented.

Over on the dark side (Corvettes) the difference would not be nearly so great.

Regards,

Mark

[737Driver]

I am a buyer for any cheap, documented, original drive train, known history COPO and rare cars needing sheet metal.

Regards,

Mark

[camarojoe]

I don't think belair is talking about cars that "need alot of sheetmetal" , he's talking about cars that NEEDED alot of sheetmetal, but instead got the tags and specific items transfered to a non-supercar body. THOSE are the cars people tend to shy away from.

[737Driver]

Joe,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I didn't quite get that the way it was intended.

With that being said, you get a ZL1 that is documented with original drivetrain and known history. It is, unquestionably, the real deal. The body is history. Everything is rusted out and beat to dickens and there is nothing much useful remaining, You now find a beautiful donor car and transfer the drivetrain and sub frame over to the donor. The trim tags are attached properly and a world class resto is performed. Are people really going to shy away or are they really only going to pay a fraction for a car like this? It doesn't make common sense to me. I would be a buyer on a car like that with no hesitation.

Listen, I would prefer an all original car, just like anyone else, but, I would not hesitate to pay strong money for the re-bodied car. It would not be a big money road block.

I believe super rare pieces, such as COPO, L88, Boss 429, etc, are not that greatly affected by such things.

Regards,

Mark

The problem lies in the fact that musclecars or really any car that has had a new or different body shell installed always was and always will be worth much less to a "collector." The enthusiast might not care as much, but the collector does. Since the vast majority here and on other musclecar websites will say they are "collectors" even if only owning a single car, the stigma stays.

Since we are talking persumably about GM "supercars" I find it somewhat humorous and naive when people on this website slam rebodies, as to a large degree you guys are the reason people are doing it in the first place. How many Yenko Camaros, Chevelles, Novas, and other supercars have been sold and flipped multiple times here for mega profit. The post and classifieds here are filled with cars that were bought on Sunday and sold the following Monday..lol I guarantee if people who primarily make up this website sat and thought about it they could name 2-3 dozen cars sold more than twice in a 6-9 month period and at least a dozen people here assoicated as "flippers." It stands to reason that enterprising people recognize the profit to be made and will go to great lengths to "rebuild" what in a normal market might be left alone.

I am not a collector, but an enthuiast. So for me as long as the car in question has the proper docs, numbers, and there isn't evidence of a rebody then it is good enough. Notice I didn't say I WANTED a rebody or that I would knowingly buy a rebody. However since any car I buy, I can't lay claim to having been there from its' inception to today (only a handful of original owners can do that) then I have to assume a car has had some type of work. If I'm coughing up the coinage for a "supercar" or some other rare car then I'm researching the docs and the cars' history BEFORE buying..not after. If I find the car was a race car and cut up and today it isn't..then I'm an idiot if I don't ASSUME extensive repair or a rebody, unless evidence to the contrary. I should then pay as such.

It is also funny to me when folks here talk about self policing the hobby and ensuring that "rebodies" are somehow catagorized. My opinion on the times I've seen susupected cars brought to light, it largely depends on 2 things..a) who is notifing the group and B) who owns the suspected car now. If it is someone out of the "loop" or group on either occasion the person and car are picked apart. If it is someone that everyone knows here and has coffee with at the car shows then it is kept pretty quiet and everyone hopes the discussion goes away. I would imagine largely because the whole "rebody" issue is a large negative in our hobby, and if "so and so" can be scrutinized then so can I mentality..

The bottom line is if an expert restoration is done on any given car..a "rebody" or installing a different body shell will not be detectable, It is only through thourgh research of a particular VIN that the truth might POSSIBILY be known. Sorry for being long winded..

[camarojoe]

a supercar with extensive sheetmetal repair is alot different than a supercar firewall welded to a plain-jane body, and other assorted stuff transferred to the plain jane body to make it appear like the original supercar once did. They are not the same thing, and shouldn't be considered the same, and I don't care who owns it. I've seen some REALLY bad cars brought back to life without a rebody, so just because a car needs alot of work doesn't mean taking the easy way out and firewalling a car is "ok" because thats quick and easy, and fixing the existing car is alot of work.

[Belair62]

As an "enthusist" would you be pissed if you bought a car that didn't turn out to be what your homework told you it was ?

[JIM]

Let me share this, several years ago I was asked to do the undercarriage of a 1970 LS-6 Chevelle for a customer. We were to remove the drivetrain, and interior and bring the car to concours standards. This was a Numbers matching car complete with history and Buildsheet. The car was never modified and appeared a Super nice original low mile car. Upon removal of the inner fenders and onto the heater box all hell broke lose. This car had been creamed on the right side and had the right cowl off a 1972 chevelle with vin# under the blower motor opening. This was a very nice fix and done back in the day, No one knew. It was only visable from inside the car and had a winshield post and all installed. Does it hurt that car?
Number 2
I had a 1970 L-78 that some idiot started to graft Air Conditioning into and cut away part of the vin # under the heater opening. It had complete buildsheet and most of drive train. The new owner had to graft a firewall section and bitched about it. Does it hurt that car?
Number 3
I work on these cars daily and just finished a 1970 LS-6 for another customer. It had been Hit hard in the front and had also had a frame put under it. We figure this car was hit almost New as the frame was 40 days after the car, the sheetmetal on the front looked original paint and so on. Once apart again the right side had been crushed and the cowl and firewall panels on the blower motor had been poorly brazed in. and even the lower inner fender attachment was screwed in place all had GM part#s, hense no vin at all . does it hurt that car ?

3 Senerio's of real live accident or Idiot owner damage in life. Whats Your take
all real documented cars with firewall issuses
Jim

[camarojoe]

In all 3 cases mentioned, the original car was there... yes there were some repairs, and some numbers missing that were originally there, but the real car was still what you were looking at. Now if you would have told me you started taking a car apart, and found that it was actually a complete 72 chevelle with the 70 LS6 vin numbers and panels welded into it, that would be a different story... once again, theres a big difference between repairing and rebodying.

[COPO]

Joe, I don't quite understand what you do or do not consider a rebody. You seem to be saying if someone replaces every body panel one at a time, then it is OK because it was a lot of work and was harder than a tag swap? While this is the extreme case, where does one cross the line? No one has yet defined a rebody.