Single vs. Double; Original vs. CE Block

[jfkheat]

I don't own a COPO and probably never will but I think your deductions are a bit high. I'm going to base the following on a price of $250K for a nice original drivetrain Yenko. In theory, if you found a real COPO from Joe Blow Chevy (-50K) with a decked block (-150K), wrong date auto trans (-75K) and wrong rearend (-10K), you would expect the seller to pay you about $30K to $40K to take the car. You may want to study the Yenko and Copo market before you buy a car. Just my opinion.
James

[mockingbird812]

It is human nature to try and place a process on something like this. Most of industry is very process oriented these days. Some things are process-able and some aren't. This wld be a tuff one - but if it weren't tuff it wouldn't be worth doing. There are indeed a ton of variables some of which are intangibles. But, I laud you for attempting it. Could be fun, and if nothing else gives you a reference point to perhaps compare one car to another whether you are buying or selling or just determining value. One thing I'll suggest is to not place a discrete $dollare$ figure for deductions which will be outdated the week after next, but use %percentages%.

That said, one of my favorite value-added things that I look for in a car is the story it tells. All of these cars have a story, some will never be known some are waiting to be unearthed. I like the thrill of the hunt to go back as far as I can on my car and find something the previous fellow didn't. It can be anything from the sexy, hi profile i.e owned by a celebrity or famous drag racer, to the regular joe stuff, but typical of how these beasts were used in the day.

Good luck!

Sam

[Belair62]

I think it would be easier to write down what you want ..engine,docs,trans,color,etc....and when that one comes up for sale at whatever price...decide if you are comfortable with that price...negotiate and get it.

[Jeff H]

It sounds like you are questioning whether you want an all original, documented COPO vs one that isn't. It also depends on your financial situation. If I wanted a COPO car for a collection, it would have to be a documented, numbers matching car. The only questions would be color, transmission and extra options. From there it gets tough between a documented car with non original engine or trans vs a supposed numbers matching car with no documents. There is so much restamping and fake documents going around now that I would have to take it slowly to make sure everything looks legit. I wouldn't even want to begin to put prices and deduction on certain combinations since that is a personal thing. As for the transmission, I think you'll be very surprised how a TH400 in a COPO runs so that wouldn't be a value deduction at all to me. Sleeper = 427, dog dish hubcaps, auto on the column, no fancy options.

[Alss]

I bought my COPO Chevelle last July..lots of paper documentation a CE block,#'s matching trans and rear. I am actually realieved that it is a CE block..takes some pressure off the "matching" numbers game. The car is as real as they get and was raced hard. I was more pressed to find a car with paperwork than one with a "original numbers matching" motor.With all the re-stamping going on, and the thieves are getting good at it a car may appear to be real but could be a good fake/re-stamp.No one can argue with good original factory paperwork.

ALbert

[Chevy454]

I'm curious about the *bias* regarding auto vs. manual cars? The autos are rarer, and will put a whoopin' on the stick cars, but some folks are hung up on shifting for themselves...what gives?

BTW: good topic, Howard...

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious about the *bias* regarding auto vs. manual cars? The autos are rarer, and will put a whoopin' on the stick cars, but some folks are hung up on shifting for themselves...what gives?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you said it and not me!

[SamLBInj]

I would consider documentation and history the most critical factor. There is too many scum bags out there where you could almost build any car you wanted and get a POP, Trim Tag, and build sheet, all numbers matching to boot. Without the history you are not a 100% sure what you are winding up with. Thats why real known cars are worth so much and if they have all the original parts you got one of only a handful of what are left. These cars were purchased with one thing in mind, racing, and if you do that right the parts dont last long. Me personally, Id rather find one than buy one but that aint very easy nowadays, but im still looking...

[rubbinisracing]

Thanks for your opinions!

Let me respond to a few points made.

1. I may have confused some of you by using the word "deduction", what I meant but didn't effectively communicate is this. A 50k deduction means the same as I'd pay 50k more for same car with numbers matching engine (etc) its just semantics.

2. I never set a top price for the car. Don't know what that would be. Its your math not mine! 250K for a numbers matching 4 spd yenko......Sign me up!

3. This a hobby to me, but I try to apply some business acumen along the way. Let me give you an example.

10-12 weeks ago I was offered a 1967 L88 Corvette Convertible for 750K. The car was extensively documented, numbers, the whole thing. I wasn't prepared to make a decision while on the phone because I hadn't done my homework. There was a lot to think about.....Should I buy this car or buy multiple cars with the same money. I could get 5 - 67 Corvette Vert 427-435 cars for the same money or any number of other combinations. I could take the same money and buy a small office building and earn 75K on a 10 cap plus get appreciation of 7% a year. Turnaround and take the 75k and buy new muscle with it.
These are the kinds of questions you need to have already answered before you get the call. I need to have done this for every car I want to collect plus others that are on the fringe of what I'm currently looking for. When a high value limited production car becomes available and you get word of it, 4-8 hrs has usually passed and a dozen or so potential buyers have been contacted. You probably got 30 mins tops. When I called back, the car was sold.
If you haven't done this before how do you decide when to quit bidding or to tella guy that's too rich for you? What do you do if 2 like cars are at an auction that meet your criteria? What do you negotiate with?
"Sucess is when preperation meets opportunity"

4.Colin, how many guys never got in on the bidding because a particular car wasn't correct. We'll never know, nor will we ever know what that car would have brought if it had appealed to more buyers. It only takes 2 guys wanting the same thing for it to get interesting. Is a shortstop worth 25 mil, must be, somebody paid him!
Your right about great paperwork over iffy, but why do you have to choose between one or the other. Get it all!

5. Sam, your right, percentages would work better but I would have to set a base to work from. I'm not sure where that would be, but I'm open to suggestions.
I seen the write up on this site about your Charger and it was wonderful. It opened my eyes to a facet of collecting I hadn't considered. I've incorporated it to my search for cars. Thanks!

6. Jeff, good job of reading between the lines! I already knew what I'm looking for, but wanted to see if I was overlooking something.
Give me a fully documented Yenko with original drive train!

7. Al, first things first. What a good looking Chevelle you had in Nashville. Tried to come by and introduce myself but with the rain I kept missing you.
Sounds like you got the copo you wanted. Good luck on the resto.

8. 4 Spds.- A.) Personal preference for 4 speeds...just like to work the shifter.....makes me feel young. B.)I'm never gonna get on a high dollar numbers car real hard. I save that for my clone or street rod. Blow it up and fix it.... no tears shed! C.)The biggest reason - Colin feel free to weigh in.... If I need to sell a car(s) quickly to raise cash I can get out in 24 hours. A/T's take a lot longer. Case in point - LMC had a A/T Yenko on their site for 4 weeks before it sold, wouldn't have made it to the web if it had been a 4 spd,

9. Sam in NJ, Right On and keep Jammin!

I really want to thank you guys for the post. Keep the cards and letters coming!