NJSteves 69 Pace car !!!!

[Bill Pritchard]

Beautiful car and incredible stories behind it, Steve. Love those vintage pics

And what on earth makes you think you can prove Show Judges to be wrong just because you have original photos and factory documentation We all know the judges are the Ultimate Truth

[njsteve]

[ QUOTE ]
And what on earth makes you think you can prove Show Judges to be wrong just because you have original photos and factory documentation We all know the judges are the Ultimate Truth

[/ QUOTE ]

I even told them I have the original owner, his wife and daughter standing by to testify to the facts, but they still wouldn't believe it. Kind of bizarre, coming from the legal world as I do: In a courtroom the factory blueprints, i.e business records, would trump anyone's personal observations when it comes to how much weight an item of evidence is given. I guess I'm just living in the Bizarro World again.

[Steve Shauger]

Easy does it regarding the judges. Although I did not judge your car (I judge Vintage/Survivor class) I did respond to your request for my oppinion. My opinion is base on seven original paint cars which I have owned and/or certified. The original cars are the benchmark for how cars should be restored (in my opinion). We all know the factory had variances in many of their processes. The same can be said for their documentation. I standby my findings that your stripe dimensions are not what is typically found. There are several stencil manufacturers that replicate stripes to what I have found. I understand your frustration and you raise good points, and they should be debated. Also remember all the judges volunteer their time and do it for the fun and love of the hobbie. BTW your looks awesome and is truly one of a kind.

Steve Shauger
Vintage Camaro

[budnate]

paceme,
dont take offense but let me get this straight..Steve has photo's showing how his strips were applied at the factory..he put them back exactly as they were from new and you are saying they should be altered from that to a standard set by ????? I would agree with you if he had no doc's to back up his claim.....the cars were all not built perfect back then and had there own personalities...all the survivor cars I have seen look like the stuff we buy new today...horrible sheet metal alignment, over spray...no paint on items etc...I worry we are ending up with cookie cutter cars today looking for that perfect score at all costs...

[Steve Shauger]

At the time the photos were not presented, I believe Steve aquired them at a later date. They represent good evidence , and should be presented to the judges involved. As far as I know the painter(Rich) used the assembly manual (makes sense) to lay the stripes out, and as I stated previously that is not always accurate. My question would be, has Steve presented his new information(pics)to the judging commitee ?? Again I stated before he has good points and this new information should be considered (I have no input with that group).

My post was more directed with the previous by Bill Pritchard "We all know the judges are the Ultimate Truth " . He took a shot at the judges I feel is uncalled for. The ACA and Camaros@ Carlisle have in my opinion the most comprehensive judging programs available. A lot of time and dedication goes into judging each class. My class we average 4 hrs a car and try to provide owners with a fair objective assement of their car.

[TimG]

It's important to remember that the deduction on the stripes was probably very minor in relation to a total score. I've had low mile cars judged with what were definitely factory flaws and seen points taken off for these flaws. Both the judges and I knew these issues were on the car from its birth, but the judges look for typical factory production. This means that an 8,000 mile automatic Corvette with a carb coded for a manual transmission will be docked points even if the carb has the correct date and apparently was installed at the factory.
It also means that a big glob of bonding adhesive on the fender of an 18,000 mile car receives a deduction even though it was done at the factory and should have been cleaned up. These deductions won't make or break a car, especially a very nice car like this Pace Car. Most judges will do the best they can and revise the definitions as time goes on. In five years, other original cars may verify this stripe set up and the judges will allow this variance.

[njsteve]

At the time of the judging I didnt think to bring the assembly manual with me, but I had the original photos and showed them to anyone who wanted to see them. I just didnt want to be a "stagemother" by hanging around the judges and debating the issue with them. Having judged Mopars in the past I know how much grief it can be! These guys and gals are volunteers and deserve all the cudos I can give them.

Also, I didn't learn what the deduction was until I received the scoresheet later. The judging staff were extremely helpful in identifying the small things that were downright incorrect with the car (that I didnt even know about) like the muffler clamps, dist cap, air filter, horn brackets and horn relay (which were later corrected with parts hunting at Carlisle). I may bring it back next Summer with the items corrected (other than stripes) and see how it does. Thanks again