High 69 Z-28 cross ram prices coming to an end??

[70 copo]

Joe,

I respectfully disagree, and here is why. I have been carefully watching the recent two year spike in the prices of these cars. As I recall it all started two years ago at the BJ Auction when a guy brought two well restored 69 Z-28's to be sold. both brought world record prices. Both had FAKE not even reproduction X-rams but fakes without no MFG markings at all. (See attached photo taken at BJ)

To a fanatic-you are correct. originality matters-alot. But unfortunately there are plenty of people that just want one.

Here is a another perfect example of how this plays out.

527 and 826 exaust manfolds. A little shop in indiana was knocking them off in small batches a full three years prior to D+R getting the agreement from GM to do the real Reproductions. As you may recall (I do) Prices on these manifolds were in excess of $1500.00 a pair prior to the official reproductions. Now they are $300.00 a pop and everybody has them. I recently passed on an original set of new take offs for $450.00 due to slight pitting, as the judges will now take points as they are used to the quality of the repops.

I guess the big issue with the X-rams is each major author who has written on them has stated that they do not run well on the street. When the market is flooded in several years we will again see them at swap meets for sale as people pull them back off the cars, and the cycle then repeats.

Phil

[Charley Lillard]

I just sold a set of exhaust manifolds on Ebay for 1,275.00 so I don't think the repo that has to be machined to fit has done much to the value of the orig ones yet. As for the crossrams. I think all the repo crossrams that are being done will have a effect on the value of a crossram car but I don't think you will be seeing orig crossrams being taken off and sold at swap meets. You might see the repo setups showing up at the swap meets though.

[70 copo]

Charlie,

I think the value of documented X-ram cars will remain good. An X-ram car with owner history and documents to the install date (with a dealer receipt) will be blue chip.

Phil

[camarojoe]

You're right on the money Charley... Repro stuff is always different than original, and good original parts will always command the real money... will there be a select guy here or there that unknowingly pays "real car" prices for put-together stuff and repro parts? Sure, but that doesnt mean when something comes out as a reproduction that the originals have suddenly lost their value... if anything, the "real-deal" stuff becomes even more sought after, when people grow tired of looking at the incorrect repro stuff... good observation on the exhaust manifolds too... i have a repro set on my Deuce that leak like a seive, and make contact on the engine block everywhere BUT the flange...I think Marlin is dealing with the same PITA as we speak... show me a pair of original ones with good smog holes (even PITTED original ones!) for 400.00 or less and I will show you a buyer. (me!)
PS... i'll also show you someone with a set of "exact" repros for sale very cheap too...

[Rick H]

I agree with Charlie, we just sold a set of original 69 exhaust manifolds on ebay for $2025.00. The availablity of repop stuff didn't affect the sale. In most cases originality will demand the higher cost.

Rick

[70 copo]

Yep you are right. With a world wide following-there is always someone who is willing to pay big dollars for the right date on the right set of exaust manifolds. What I am saying here is the days of table selling these parts for that kind of money at Swap Meets where you can inspect the part prior to buying it- is OVER. Even the speciality swaps are affected as I go to most of them in the midwest and the east coast- these parts are not even on the tables for sale. The reason that they are on E-bay is because as the market is focused and specialized today and E-bay is the best way to reach this segment of buyers.

Phil

PS. The topic posted was about Cross Rams. Any one want to talk about that??

[Mark_C]

No, but since that manifold is a Offenhauser intake that has been machined to look like a Cross Ram intake (count the Bolts in the cover) it means that some bidders are becoming a little mote educated about what they are buying.

Hope whoever owns the winters foundary marking isn't too upset that someone is using it on counterfeit parts.

[Mr70]

I believe that seller is Joe at The Parts Place here in Elburn Illinois.

[70 copo]

The picture used in the first post was taken at BJ west palm in April 04, and this is the same car.

As I recall car sold for $110K Same guy who has been selling these at BJ the last few years.

Seller did not disclose that it was Offy. In fact he told me that he had it - and several others made "special" for him at a foundary.

No Mfg markings = is an attempt to deceive. As the printed material associated with the sale carefully tip toed around the manifold details- other that to state that the car was equipped with the "Ultra-Rare Cross Ram".

If they (the bidders) are paying over $100K for a car with a fake- then who is really figuring this all out??

Phil

[Salvatore]

I think the cross ram deal will be a phase. When they are available and within most peoples price range there will be many takers. As time goes on and they find themselves on just average cars, those guys that own those cars will be taking them off. Most people arn't really able to set them up and make them run very well. They will be getting sick of them and will be looking for their single 4 barrel carb to put back on. Same thing happened with the old F.I. on the vettes and 57 chevies. Average guys couldn't get them to work and they were trading them with money for the single quad. If I remember correctly there were at least 3-4 X-ram cars at Super Chevy at Maple Grove this year. The cars were not really even that nice. Kerry Stanleys is really the only one I ever saw that is efficient. Why would you want to slow a car down that is already a little timid? Sam