Ram Air IV versus 455 HO

[Belair62]

Charley...I would really suggest you take these guy's advice and use someone who KNOWS PONTIAC...they are different animals.

[Chevy454]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Belair. From talking to SuperStock guys, those Ponchos seem to do things kind of bassackwards of a Chevy.

[Steve_Hoog]

You know the distributor spins the opposite direction, right?

[Belair62]

They just have their own set of tricks and don't respond to the things a big block responds to....am I close here Poncho dudes...

[supergonzo]

You can find Intake gaskets no problem.. fel pro makes them.I find the exact number Charlie if you want.
As far as ass backwards from chevy?? Yes the distributor turns the other way, and you can take it out of the car without pulling the intake manifold and draining all of your antifreeze out of the radiator. Pontiacs are much easier than most engines to work on, and any competent engine builder should be able to work on any brands.

As far as what makes them go or special tricks?? Most engines regardless of brand respond to mostly the same things...which is the right combination of parts. And careful building techniques, I am not sure what you guys think makes an engine tick. They all are just blocks, heads, intakes & exhaust and camshaft. Air pumps if you will, the more efficient you can make any brand the better.

Putting that discussion aside, everybody has a few tricks up their sleeve(that probably work on all brands), but that comes later, if you have a good engine builder your 455SD will make you very happy.

[supergonzo]

I kind of worded the above incorrectly, but hey it was midnight my time. Here's some things you will find different about a Pontiac versus a Chevy:

1.All Pontiac performance heads used screw-in rocker studs from 67+
2. Pontiac performance heads have some of the largest valve sizes in the auto world 2.11/1.77 ,only the BBC performance heads 2.19/1.88 are bigger in a wedge head, except Ford cleveland intakes were 2.19
3. Pontiac engines all use a valley pan, which seperates the hot oil from hitting the bottom of the intake manifold. A definite BIG performance boost. You could also cut off the water neck and change the intake manfold and distributor within 15 minutes at the track and never drain any antifreeze!
4. No dirt, antifreeze or gasket parts can get inside the motor when changing the intake manifold.
5. You do not have to pull the distributor to change the intake manifold.
6. The (balancer) comes off without a pulley.
7. All engines are internally balanced already, no mis matched externally balanced nonsense.
6. The timing cover can be removed without loosening up the oil pan.
7. Changing a timing chain in a pontiac takes 1/3 of the time as a chevy.
8. Pontiac bottom ends are very strong and beefy, all main caps are centered and go in one place only. No snapping them into the block and hope they stay in one place.
9. Todays Rod technology puts the strength of all rods on an equal basis, Some older non-performance Pontiacs had somewhat weaker rods. It has been claimed, although they were probably over revved.
10. All Pontiacs use 4/5 to full lenght very good windage trays. Only the Highest performance chevys had them and they were of inferior design.
11. All Pontiac combustion chambers are machined not cast
12. No Pontiac head bolts go into water jackets like most Chevy's. Cylinder head distortion because of uneven heating is not a problem in a Pontiac.
13. Pontiac stock rods are already among the longest in the industry, a recently recognized slight performance advantage. (basically more leverage)
14.Pontiac holds in the camshaft with a separate retainer plate, not relying upon the timing cover & chain to do the job.

Thats all I can think of for now, I am sure I am missing quite a few things. Anyway Charlie, you will find your Pontiac 455 SD will give you very good performance, last forever without needing a valve job or any other annoying big problem and be very easy to work on.
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For you Chevy guys about to cry Foul!! I own 2 BBC Chevy's and do not have anything against them, I am just pointing out different building techniques which make the Pontiac engine much easier to work on and very well designed.
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A an example: When I run my RAIV 69' Judge at the track, I use the stock aluminum intake with the heat crossover removed, just as the factory had already designed it. I constantly get Chevy guys coming over to look at the motor and asking if that is the "new" Holley Air Gap intake manifold. I have to explain to them that Pontiac designed this 35 years ago. And it is not a aftermarket intake. Lots of shaking heads and grumbles as people walk away, seemingly insisting that I MUST have a non-stock part.

I like all muscle cars, they all are cool to me www.kingofmusclecars.com

[Charley Lillard]

"6. The (balancer) comes off without a pulley." ..Ha.. When tearing down the engine I spent about 15 minutes scrounging around for the right length bolts to bolt my puller onto the balancer. Ended up going to the hardware store. I bolt it on and then the balancer just slid right off into my hands..... Where were these tidbits a couple weeks ago........

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
From talking to SuperStock guys, those Ponchos seem to do things kind of bassackwards of a Chevy.

As far as what makes them go or special tricks?? Most engines regardless of brand respond to mostly the same things...which is the right combination of parts. And careful building techniques, I am not sure what you guys think makes an engine tick. They all are just blocks, heads, intakes & exhaust and camshaft. Air pumps if you will, the more efficient you can make any brand the better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a page late, but better than never I guess. What I meant by "bassackwards" was that from what I've read and what the Poncho racers have told me is that in the Stock/SuperStock ranks have to take a different approach than you would with a Chevy. With a Chevy you can let the engine accellerate the car, which gives you the "mechanical advantage" of running your typical loose race converter with some steep gears out back...quite the opposite with the Pontiacs. The Pontiac engines don't like to accellerate as well, so they've got to get the revs up and "hang them up", as they say, using a tight converter and geared down out back. Therein lies the problem, as with most cars you run 5.13s or whatever with a loose converter, and you gain a mechanical advantage with that...you lose some of that on the Pontiacs because of the converter/gear setup.

[Steve_Hoog]

If you have ever raced dirt bikes, maybe this will work for comparison. Small block = 125, Pontiac = 250, Big Block = 500. A Pontiac is more like a Big Block, but there are still differences.

Pontiacs definitely love a lot of fuel.

[supergonzo]

Yup, you right Rob, Chevy's you can gear to the track better. Because the power is at High Rpm's where the heads flow air like nobody's business. Pontiacs have much more of a street friendly hi-torque type of power band, So tighter converters and more street friendly gears work better.
Rob that car of yours is awesome, BTW...Hope to see you in July

All of this is related to ORIGINAL stroke and crank journal size, of which most Pontiac racers now use a smaller 400 3" main bearing size and aluminum rods which bring the disparity of Rev-ability much closer.