1967 Baldwin Motion Camaro.

[MotownMadman]

This is absolutly ridiculous! This whole conspiracy theory just dont fit! Even with my sometines warped and twisted perception of things I cant find a spot outside the box to stand! The whole concept is based upon the idea of one of the original owners wanting it back........so bad he is going to threaten to sue the only man on the frigging planet who can turn a $15,000 driver Camaro into a BM car, so two things come to mind, nobody who can think outside a straight jacket would threaten to hammer the goose if it lays the golden egg, and even more absurd is the fact that if the previous owner knows the car is a BM and wants it back, now that it has a shadow hanging over it why not just BUY IT BACK! 250,000 people who attended Barrett Jackson could have bought that car, probebly for less then the asking price of $69,995, which if it is the Baldwin Motion this owner claims it to be, he could buy it for about half of WHAT IT'S WORTH! So, concoct a story like this to buy back a car that cant be documented because you threatened the source of documentation which means it will never see full value......when all you had to do is BUY IT BACK! Who the hell is the former owner, Tuttle? These guys are smoking better weed then I have ever seen, maybe the only reason I can see through this BS is because I didnt Inhale! The whole thing is ridiculous, this last week has been like going to the Comedy Den, first you got a guy trying to claim a car as being stolen from him and he wants it back, at the same time all the previous owners to the car are scrathing their heads and wondering why if this idiot wanted to go to prison so bad why not throw a brick through a post office window, at the same time another fool is convincing the world his old car is a fake to make it worthless all the while it's FOR SALE and he could have it at a moments notice to spend the next five years trying to convince the world it's real! Were these two guys related? Somebody get me a bottle of Crown Royal quick, I need some clarity in my life!
MomanMadtown

[JoeC]

[ QUOTE ]
This whole conspiracy theory just dont fit!

[/ QUOTE ]
That's it!
The car was bought by the man on the grassy knoll

[70 copo]

Mowtown,
I looked this car over too:

SS-427's on the hood too late for a this car (68-up)

Motion Plaques on fenders, spoiler, and valve covers- again too Late for a this car (69-up)

Hood was reproduction. and was cut out in the center. Chop Gun work on what was left was really smooth also.

Heads were polished.

Valve covers were the finned type with the rectangular centers for the plaques- again too late for a this car. (69 and up)


From the corrall:

The questions that were asked were related to the date of the additional work on the car listed above. There was ongoing debate reguarding if the parts that were late for the car were added later-by the owner. If the car was converted by Motion Perhaps just at a later date, or added by the owner at a later date. At any rate, the non period correct parts were the killers on the sale of this car as most people walked away shaking their heads. Myself included. The letter on the dash did not seem to factor into the opinions of the folks that passed on this car.

Nice car to drive however.

Phil

[SamLBInj]

[ QUOTE ]
These guys are smoking better weed then I have ever seen, maybe the only reason I can see through this BS is because I Inhale! Somebody get me a bottle of Crown Royal quick, I need some clarity in my life!
MomanMadtown

[/ QUOTE ]
Geeze, No wonder you are so confused
Just bustin on you..LOL
Sam

[olredalert]

Matt,

-----I did say it was far-fetched didnt I? Want to make sure that no one here thinks I believed the tripe I heard. Just reporting what I was told. Dont shoot the messenger,please!............Bill S

[COPO]

You can read all about this car here. I've shown a couple of relevant posts from the thread below. https://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/show...art=1&vc=1

[ QUOTE ]
Gentlemen, something is rotten in Denmark. The 1967 Motion Camaro I bought at Auburn has problems, possibly even legal ones. It does have a letter from Joel Rosen stating that it is a real Motion car, but last year it had a letter from Joel Rosen stating it was NOT a Motion car. We have talked to the origional first buyer, and he bought it new in Oklahoma City at Hudiburg Chevrolet in the third week of June 1967. The car was made the second week of May 1967.Yes , we now have a problem!!!!!How can Joel say this car came from Baldwin and is a Motion car, when last year he wrote it was not.And in five weeks from build date to selling date off new car lot in Oklahoma?????Gentlemen, maybe we put to much importance in a letter from Joel Rosen,which received his fee from both previous owners. This is a $100,000 deal that has gone south, I have the car now , waiting for the end result, with my check having had payment stopped!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It was the NCIB report that found the origional dealership, to be Hudipold Chevrolet in Oklahoma City and we now know the list of all the former owners of the car, and have talked to all but one who was killed .In saying the car was unverifiable last year, Joel stated the car had come from Kline Chevrolet in Va.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Well closure is near. The folks at Kruse/eBay auctions which held the large auction in Auburn are a class act. They are taking the car back at their expence and going to sell it as a clone and give the proceeds that are left after they take their due commissions out and give the remaining amount to the seller. The reason and how the new letter from Joel came into being, I will not discuss. If any of you guys frequent the classic car auctions, then you know that the Kruse,the Leake, and the Branson auction that Jim and Kathy Cox has are the top of the line. They are at the top for integrity along with the fine people at Russo-Steele and the Barrett-Jackson auctions. In a crazy world where some people try to make a fast buck, it is nice to deal with people who still do business the old fashioned way, with pride and passion for their work.


[/ QUOTE ]

[csx289]

FYI: The car SOLD at Barrett-Jackson in the car corral for $65k. Went to a buyer who accepted the car that was represented as a clone, and didn't care. Said he knew real ones were 2-3x the money and just wanted a car to drive.

For what I saw people paying for cars that were no more real, but just represented as such, does $65k really seem that bad? Maybe you could build it for that, but maybe not. It was originally a black L78 car, so that has got to be worth something.

Again, maybe we should ease up on guys buying what they like.As long as they don't ask us to help pay, who cares? ENTHUSIASM is what makes the hobby, NEGATIVITY is what kills it.

Sorry for the honesty, could be the drinks I had tonight.

Regards to all,
Colin

[MotownMadman]

Maybe you didnt drink enough. I started this thread, if you go back and read it from beginning to end you will find that the discussion was not about the current owner of the car, nothing negative was really brought up about the owner. I actually feel for the guy. The discussion was about the car and it's history, which is what this board is for. I had some well founded questions about it, if the answers are anywhere they would be here. The negativity came about when the story of a past owner who is allegedly lying in an effort to get even or get the car back, whichever, but lies will help none of these cars or the hobby. The lies are blatantly negative and should be treated as such. The negativity here came from a past owner, not the current or future owners. And you are right, let someone buy the car, no one is saying otherwise, a few even commented on what a nice car it was and how much fun it would be.....not negative, so as it states here already, instead of lies, deciet, or conspiracys, for Gods sake somebody buy it so maybe they can come here and tell the rest of the hobby what it really is.......if they choose to. As for asking us to pay? Well, I disagree, as anytime a situation that involves lies, deciet, fraud, or any shadowy transaction takes place in this hobby it costs all the rest of us in a bad reputation for the hobby and people involved, it causes people who may have joined the hobby to have second thoughts, in a way it can even decrease the value of legitamite collector cars. The last thing any hobby needs is a nervous buying audience. It is not a situation of this car being advertised in a local hometown paper, this was the biggest collector car auction on the planet with world wide coverage. Anytime someone shells out the kind of money it takes to collect these cars, like Motion cars, they have a right and responsibility to do research and investigate anything that is on the market, and that is done through many ways, including web sites like this one. If someone owns a car that could possibly be one of a few on the planet, dont expect to bring it to a function like Barrett Jackson without it being discussed. If you cant stand the scutiny, dont get under the magnifying glass! This car has apparently had past issues, anyone with common sense would know it would cause a certain amount of controversy at a world wide event. I still cant grab on to the big picture here anyway, a former owner wants the car back, so he lies about it to damage it's reputation in order to buy it.....yet the whole time it is FOR SALE and could be bought at any time without all the BS! Which in my opinion by the way, doesnt make any sense and I think the whole story is BS! The point is however, considering what the car is represented to be, and the current market value for a real car like that, anyone with an interest has a right to question everything. That particular car was one of the few at BJ that I would have had an interest in buying if it turned out to be real, so with 70K at stake I am supposed to buy it without asking questions? Right......
Motown

[70 copo]

Motown,

Correct. As I stated. I was there - and looked this car over good. This car did not have the words "Clone" "replica" or "recreation" listed on any of the discriptions. Just the letter from Joel on the dash, and "Motion Camaro" on the discriptions. That would lead me to believe that the car was not described "completely". (now being PC here) Buyer Beware...

It was clear that many potential buyers at Barrett were smart, and in no small part owe that to the existance of this site, and the good people that post here.

Phil

[MrMotion]

Does this mean that any signed and notarized afidavit that may accompany any vehicle be deemed unimportant because of the belief that there could be a degree of untruth?

Tony