Royal info wanted

[Steve_Hoog]

If you expect me to listen to anything you have to say, you have to identify yourself. I don't care if you do or not, but your opinions are meaninless without.

A few things come to mind about a person wanting to talk smack from behind a curtain.

[the70judge]

I agree with Goat72 , You cannot bad mouth someone just because of what someone has said, at one time, read the Pontiac Bible ( commonly known as ) Pontiac Musclecar Performand 1965-79 gto/firebird/superduty/ram air by Pete mcCarthy and John Angeles Its awesome and has most if not all the information other than from themselves or guys who worked and owned Royal Bobcat!! My 2 cents!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/[/img]

[supcarbob]

The contrabutions of Milt Schornack to Royal Pontiac are undeniable. Milt was a central figure in preparing,scheduling,managing and driving the famous 'Royal Bobcat' cars for magazine features along with drag strip engineering tests. His name and photos of him were a constant sight in the majority of these magazine tests from that era.Milt was also the driver of the C/S 1966 GTO driven in competion for Royal in 1966.
It is interesting to note that in most reference to Royal Pontiac in general non road test text that Milt was quoted or referenced for his knowledge to Pontiac cars. Milt was the contact person in the 'Royal Racing Team' ad's that appeared in that time frame. Milt also appeared in the November 1968 Car Craft magazine 'All Star Drag Racing Team' selections. He is shown in that photo with the likes of Don Garlits, Bill Jenkins,George Hurst,Dick Landy amongst others. Milt was accepting the 'Stock Sponser' award for Royal Pontiac. That was quite some company to be associated in photo with. I don't believe a 'glorified porter' would have been sent to accept such a prestigous honor for Royal.
I know Milt personally along with Jim Wangers.I consider them both good friends. I don't want to get in to a Schornack/Wangers contriversy on who did what. I can say that I have "NEVER" heard Milt say he was the originator or designer of the 'Royal Bobcat' package. He always acknowledges that his employment started after the fun began.I also have never heard him diminish any others role in Royal or try to grab more attention to what his role was.
Milt has never tried to make an 'illusion' on his brown Ram Air V GTO. He has always stated it was converted by the first owner by 'Royal Automotive' -not- 'Royal Pontiac'.If you look at the photos on Milt's website he shows a photo of the front fender highlighting 'Royal Automotive'.This car does, I believe carry significant historical importance. It was I believe sold through Royal Pontiac and it was converted early in its life to Ram Air V.
Milt has had problems in the past. Who hasn't? Those issues Milt has had to deal with privatly.
I do find it terrible that such an ignorant person would spew their dislike about someone in such a away. It is truely a classless , angry individual that would slander a mans name with out actually being involved in Royal Pontiac during the glory days and to bring third party accusations from the past to an internet public forum.
We are extremly lucky as enthusiasts to have both Milt Schornack -and- Jim Wangers with us today to be able to share there accounts of this fabulous time in Pontiac history.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Well said Bob.

[Bobcat]

Just had to check the board for some comic relief. You guys didn't fail me. You truly want to rewrite history though with your blind faith.
Hey, thanks for the complement. But, Yep, I am older 50. No, Milt is not in his '70's but I'm sure he appreciates the compliment too.
Sorry, But you'll have to look into things much closer. In all of those "OLD" magazines with Royal Photos and you'll see it's Frank Redicker,Winston "Win" Brown, Clarence Walters, Chuck Broomfield, Sid or Dave Warren doing the heavy work. Pete Seaton got his start hanging around Royal, as did Jack "Doc" Watson.
I wonder if "Royal" ever won a race with everyone beating them.
Undeniable contributions? Milt didn't start "looking on" at a Sun Distributor machine, a heads cc'd chamber, or an open engine compartment while at Royal until the 1965 magazines. I read one books which you reference that Milt said he should have patented the ram air system he worked on in 1965.
Too, bad that the '61-'62 Chevy's where already using it on their NASCAR racers. Z-11 program and 409's
I don't know how it could be possible for Milt to do all you think he did. For example trailer and drive the 1966 "Royal" race car. Trailer and drive and the four "Geeto Tigers," be the "Mystery Tiger" at all of the Geeto Tiger events,(there would be two teams at two different tracks at the same time), work on customer cars, answer all of those "Royal Bobcat" questions, take out all of those magazine test cars,etc, etc. Heck of a guy. LOL
In the back of the many 1965-1966 car magazines where "ACE Wilson Royal Pontiac/ Royal Racing Team" ads. with a contact person of, John Martin. Later no name because the duties where shared with Dennis Frazho and later Milt.
You should go back to "SPEED AND CUSTOM" magzine in August, 1963 and you still only see Dick Jesse, Jim Wangers and Frank Rediker.
I guess you haven't come across the History Channel" History of The Firebird" With me in the credits. Or, Speed Channel "American Muscle Car, Hurst Corp" with me in the credits
As for my '68 Firebird Brian Ballish is the one who came up with the RA IV 455 combo in the car. Diamond/Elkins did the head work. Say. why don't you find "Popular Hot Rodding" March 1971 and tell us who's pictured putting the engine in my car. Frankie Albrick did the street racing with this car. He too is only in his early 50's.
Boy, with your theory, the dealership service department must have just about closed down completely with Milt being on the road so much. LOL
Now the factory had two (2) Ram Air V engines in Florida. LOL Milt must have trailered the white with gold "Bobcat" hood striped '69 GP, '69 Judge, '69 Trans Am and the '69 GTO Crystal Turquse with the white striped "Bobcat" down all by himself. Changed the RA IV out for TWO (2) not 0ne (1) but TWO (2) Ram Air V engines. WOW!
Go back and rad some more articles. Jim has it in his book. Might be easier for you to find.
Than afterwards call Brian and than ask Jim Wangers for more confirmation on whom did what. Brian is in his early 50's too.
As for the "Car Craft Allstar Team" Brian would love to talk to you about that too. That became the only jacket Milt ever wore for years.
Thom DeMauro. He definately didn't know how to spell Royal until resent years. Thom will tell you he doesn't have time for extensive research. That he has to rely on the few people he comes in contact with. He has to get out a magazine for entertainment.
It's amazing the only people that can profit from your refusal to beleive reality is the one's you are blindly defending.The ones who have motive to future profits. LOL
Kicked out of local GTO club. That's even funnier. Keep up the story book. The chapters are getting better.
Hey, when you get time check the State of Michigan Corporation registry and trade marks and federal trade marks for Royal Bobcat/Ace Wilson's Royal Racing Team and GeetoTiger. Let me know who's name is on it and for how long.
As long as you have Jim's book, look on page 143, Dennis Frazho, John Politzer and John Kosmala would all be in their 50's too. LOL
Milt's current brown '69 GTO was owned first by Jim Wangers. (First Owner?) Jim only had a Ram Air IV in that car. Yes, Milt's Royal Automotive did do the Ram Air V converstion, but for the second owner. Now it has a Ram Air VI designation on the hood. Please explain. LOL
Unfortunately those who you appear to idealize have made a career of taking advantage from your thrust for more. Really, knowlege is good, blind faith is just that.
Thank you very much for todays entertainment. I've got to send this to Jim and some others.LOL

[Keith Tedford]

If we knew everything about our heroes, there might not be too many. Many didn't even ask to be put on the pedestals. In the mean time there are countless numbers of unsung heroes that go unnoticed. Happy New Year. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[GOAT72]

Bobcat,
Rather than diving into your pig-stye of misinformation (and horrific spelling), I will simply respond to a few of your ridiculous claims and display your lack of credibility to this forum.

[ QUOTE ]
But, Yep, I am older 50. No, Milt is not in his '70's but I'm sure he appreciates the compliment too.

[/ QUOTE ]

********Bobcat, I am happy that you "am older 50." Congrats!
Milt Schornack is in his early 70's. How do I know this?
I ASKED HIM.
So you are wrong about Milt's age. Not a big deal, but just another example of your inability to focus in reality.
************
[ QUOTE ]
<<I wonder if "Royal" ever won a race with everyone beating them.
Undeniable contributions? Milt didn't start "looking on" at a Sun Distributor machine, a heads cc'd chamber, or an open engine compartment while at Royal until the 1965 magazines.

[/ QUOTE ]

****************
This makes sense, since Milt didn't start at Royal until October of 1963. With the racing season all but over, Milt would not become involved until 1964. If it took him a WHOLE YEAR to get into a magazine, I envy him!

[ QUOTE ]
I read one books which you reference that Milt said he should have patented the ram air system he worked on in 1965.
Too, bad that the '61-'62 Chevy's where already using it on their NASCAR racers. Z-11 program and 409's

[/ QUOTE ]


**********Milt's Ram Air device was a self-admitted, "very rough prototype," which Pontiac engineers reworked. If others were working a Ram Air set-up, that's fine, because NO ONE HAD PATENTED IT at that point, so Milt could have applied for the patent. Period.
Secondly, if Chevy had it on NASCAR cars, then it was NOT a street application. Milt was trying to develop a ram air device for Royal Pontiac -- not NASCAR.

[ QUOTE ]
In the back of the many 1965-1966 car magazines where "ACE Wilson Royal Pontiac/ Royal Racing Team" ads. with a contact person of, John Martin. Later no name because the duties where shared with Dennis Frazho and later Milt.
You should go back to "SPEED AND CUSTOM" magzine in August, 1963 and you still only see Dick Jesse, Jim Wangers and Frank Rediker.

[/ QUOTE ]

**********Again, Milt started in Oct. '63, so why would he be in your "magzine" in August of that year?
You grasp... and you fail, Eric.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess you haven't come across the History Channel" History of The Firebird" With me in the credits. Or, Speed Channel "American Muscle Car, Hurst Corp" with me in the credits.

[/ QUOTE ]

********* .....and those credits were forrrrrrr......?
Maybe because you OWN an older car.. or perhaps some historic paraphernalia?
They certainly can't be because of your distorted views, which are based out of personal hatred for a fellow human being.

[ QUOTE ]
Now the factory had two (2) Ram Air V engines in Florida. LOL [ QUOTE ]


********* Sorry, Eric, the books say he swapped One (1) out. period.
I don't know where you got the notion of 2.

[ QUOTE ]
As for the "Car Craft Allstar Team" Brian would love to talk to you about that too. That became the only jacket Milt ever wore for years.

[/ QUOTE ]

********* ah........ and there's something wrong with that?


[ QUOTE ]
Thom DeMauro. He definately didn't know how to spell Royal until resent years.

[/ QUOTE ]

********
And you can't spell "Tom."
Nor can you spell "definitely" or "recent" for that matter...

[ QUOTE ]
Thom will tell you he doesn't have time for extensive research. That he has to rely on the few people he comes in contact with. He has to get out a magazine for entertainment.

[/ QUOTE ]

********It is obvious you are pulling stuff directly from your BACK SIDE.
Tom DeMauro DOES have time to research things, and he'd better, because he runs a magazine! He ALSO wrote one of those "book things", Eric. It was about the GTO. He had to do extensive research in order to write this "book thing."

If you begin to cite Tom DeMauro as one of your "buddies" he'll probably gag up a lung when he hears of it.



[ QUOTE ]
It's amazing the only people that can profit from your refusal to beleive reality is the one's you are blindly defending.The ones who have motive to future profits. LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

********Wait a second. Is Jim Wangers profiting?
Are you blindly defending him? To the point of slanderous and libelous assaults on another person?

Again, we ALL enjoy, appreciate and RESPECT Mr. Wangers and Mr. Schornack for their contributions. For you to completely dispell one's very existence is ignorant.

[ QUOTE ]
Kicked out of local GTO club. That's even funnier. Keep up the story book. The chapters are getting better.

[/ QUOTE ]
***** I have it from not one, not two, but FOUR different sources that you were voted out of the Woodward GTO Tiger organization.

From these sources I also know that you have a history of being abrasive with your peers -- people who are simply trying to enjoy the hobby.

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately those who you appear to idealize have made a career of taking advantage from your thrust for more. Really, knowlege is good, blind faith is just that.
Thank you very much for todays entertainment. I've got to send this to Jim and some others.LOL


[/ QUOTE ]

**********Eric, for some reason you fail to garner ANY information from books, magazines and newspaper articles. You shun everything that is accepted in your own display of blind faith.
Everything you say is based on hearsay. You claim it is "first hand" but you were obviously NOT there. Even if you're in your 50's, you would have been only 10 years old when Royal was in its glory.
You heard this information from ONE SOURCE-- this is NOT "first hand". Is is second-hand or "word-of-mouth" at best.

How can SO MANY PEOPLE be wrong, and only YOU are right?

And what do you hope to accomplish with your insulting words and revisionist history?

There will always be room for more stories from the guys who were there in the 1960s. We all love to hear them speak and read their words.
Why don't you stop your hate campaign and just enjoy the hobby?

Just because you are friends with Mr. Wangers does not make you the authoritative voice of Royal Bobcat history. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

Happy New Year, Bobcat.
Peace.
~G72

[Bobcat]

Keith. truer words were never spoken. Have a Good New Year. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif[/img]

[Bobcat]

GOAT72, may I suggest some anger managment classes for your condition. Your working yourself up, much to much. Take a deep breath. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img]

[copo9566aa]

This is a long story [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]
probably better with pics. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

For my Royal CD. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]