Royal info wanted

[Steve_Hoog]

JLP

Nice, don't think I've ever seen that car. Love the burn off, very cool. Too bad they aren't in color, I bet that was a sharp looking car.

[Bobcat]

In answeer to your questions. It was pretty hard for Dick to hire anyone. He was not the GM. McQueen was. Nor was Dick the new car manager. Dick Was the High performance salesman. Chuck Broomfield was the only mechinic initially doing the Bobcat conversions. Than later came Dave and Sid Warren. I know you have no idea how small Royal was in comparison to todays dealerships. YES I DID KNOW AND DO KNOW THESE gentleman.es I was around the dealership. Since you like books, I'm sure you most own Jim Wangers Book "Glory Days." Turn to the Introduction chapter and read the introdution paragraph. Find my name? Next time you watch Speed Channel's "MuscleCars" Hurst segment you'll find my name in the credits. If you get the History Channel segment "History of the Automobile, The Firebird" My family is in it and I am in the credits. I'm sure you don't however get the BBC's Jeremy Clarkston's show I'm in his film and credits for the "Deroit's Auto Industry." SO,NO MY KNOWLEDGE IS NOT BASED ON SOME FANTISY BOOK YOU READ. The books you read did not interview Dick Jesse, he's been dead a good 20 years. Ace Jr. since about 1989 Ace Sr. about 10 years. Yes, I do also Know Mac McKellar, Jack "Doc" Watson, John Sawruk and JIm Mattison to name a few who you may have heard of. Mine is not opion but based on first hand knowledge. You can read more of my resume on other posting.

[Bobcat]

Maybe you would have to had Milt steal an engine from you or one of your friends over the years, to understand. Look up a surgeon in FL, Bobby Gingle, or in Detroit and man who owns a Steel processing plant, James Gannes. These two would love to tell you about Milt.
Installing and removal of an engine at the drag strip hardly constitutes engineering involvement. Particulary when you spin a bearing after 5 runs and are told NOT to open it up. Just ship it back to PMD untouched.
As for Milt's resent Brown Ram Air V. That is another in a long line of Milts dellusions. Jim Wangers bought that brown car just after leaving the ad agency in April 1969. It was a Ram Air IV car. When JIm was ready to sell it he sold to one of Milts friends in Ohio. Milt convinced that gentleman to install a ram air V into the car. The car has a "Royal Automotive" painted on the lower front fender. Not Royal Pontiac. Royal Pontiac had been sold and Milt was fired from Leader Automotive, George Delorean. (Yes I know him). The gentleman had the car till a few years ago. I'm not sure if he took ill or past away, was the reason for the sale. This was not a PMD mule. This was engine swap was done by Brain Ballish at Milt's Royal Automotive. May be you should contact Brian he can tell you how the IRS came after him because MILT never paid his withholding and other taxes, along with bounced pay checks.
You have got to be kidding. Your going to read magazines as your source of info and rely on Milt's site? LOL, Why don't you just read the "STAR" or "ENQUIRE" for your daily news.

[Bobcat]

You guys are too much. Good by and have a nice fantacy life.

[GOAT72]

Bobcat attempted to spell:
""SO,NO MY KNOWLEDGE IS NOT BASED ON SOME FANTISY BOOK YOU READ. The books you read did not interview Dick Jesse, he's been dead a good 20 years. Ace Jr. since about 1989 Ace Sr. about 10 years. Yes, I do also Know Mac McKellar, Jack "Doc" Watson, John Sawruk and JIm Mattison to name a few who you may have heard of. Mine is not opion but based on first hand knowledge.">>

*********** So Steve Statham wrote a "fantasy book" and because you're a chiropractor this makes YOU the expert that we all should listen to? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
Oh, and Tom DeMauro at HPP... he's lying too?
Is his book also a "fantasy"?

Question: Where you ever removed (a.k.a. booted) from a local Pontiac club that you were involved in? Do you hold any animosity toward its members? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
Just checkin' so we all know where you're coming from!
Thanks!
G72

[GOAT72]

[ QUOTE ]

Installing and removal of an engine at the drag strip hardly constitutes engineering involvement. Particulary when you spin a bearing after 5 runs and are told NOT to open it up. Just ship it back to PMD untouched.
You have got to be kidding. Your going to read magazines as your source of info and rely on Milt's site? LOL, Why don't you just read the "STAR" or "ENQUIRE" for your daily news.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, "Bobcat" I'm going to listen to YOU, an obviously angry (about something) man who thinks that spouting negative information concerning a man's financial problems constitutes and validates changing the course of REAL history.
Actually, I'd rather read books by Stratham, Zazarine, DeMauro and yes, even Jim Wangers, (read it twice) before listening to you.

As far as the brown Ram AIr V car is concerned: if it was in fact rebuilt as a Ram Air V, then WHY is it one of Milt's "delusions"? NOBODY could get a factory RAV, so Milt found the car and purchased it. He doesn't claim it was a "factory" RAV.

If Milt couldn't race a car, then why was he in Florida, testing the RA V? And if Milt removed a RA-V from that Florida car and installed another one which was shipped FROM PONTIAC overnight after the first one blew, then why would you say he wasn't involved in any aspect of "engineering"? It's obvious that Pontiac engineers trusted Milt enough to ship him a 2nd RAV and let him install it.
And wow... I've NEVER heard of anyone spinning a bearing after 5 runs at a dragstrip! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/[/img]
I guess Milt's the only guy who's ever done THAT! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Finally, If you have a Bobcat '68 Firebird, I'd say the odds are pur-rrrrrty decent that ol' Milt layed hands on your engine at some point. Or perhaps he even BUILT the whole thing! I mean, he DID work on the performance vehicles at Royal.

And if he DIDN'T, then Steve Stratham, Thomas DeMauro and the rest of 'em are all liars and you, Bobcat, are the new Royal Bobcat Minister of Information.

One more thing: I have met Mr. DeMauro and Milt Schornack. I had dinner with them. Milt has SEVERAL scrapbooks full of photos from his days at Royal. It's funny how a guy who "was not employed there as a mechanic" has so many stories and photos to back him up.

I think it's YOU, not us, who is living in a fantasy world, my friend.

~GOAT72

[GOAT72]

Bobcat assaulted the English language with:
"In answeer to your questions. It was pretty hard for Dick to hire anyone. He was not the GM. McQueen was. Nor was
Dick the new car manager. Dick Was the High performance salesman. Chuck Broomfield was the only mechinic initially doing the Bobcat conversions. Than later came Dave and Sid Warren. I know you have no idea how small Royal was in comparison to todays dealerships."

Bobcat,
I'm sure you were there, but you HAD to have been just a kid. (??)
Next, Dick Jesse was the performance salesman, yes, but he was INUNDATED with performance sales (over 5,000 Royal Bobcat club members when it was all said n' done)so he had to hire another mechanic to handle the load.

I quote:
""To beat one of their cars (Royal) was a high-profile victory indeed. After seeing Schornack in action, Dick Jesse, the performance salesman at Royal Pontiac, invited Milt to come and discuss job opportunities"
Page 80-81 GTO: The Great One, Steve Stratham.

Finally, in my 2+ hours of conversation with Milt, he never once had a negative word to say about Jim Wangers or anybody else. The guy is about 72 rr 73 years old now and he just likes to tell stories about his days at Royal. For you to trash the guy is absurd and inherently cruel. I'm certain you have angered folks in your past -- I certainly have. But why do you display such hatred for this guy?
It's not right to trash him on these boards and I am glad I stumbled in to defend him.

I will not help you create a Wangers v. Schornack agenda. As I said, BOTH men made tremendous contributions to the GTO legend.
I have nothing but respect for both of them.

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]~GOAT72

[Steve_Hoog]

GOAT72

You need to identify yourself.

[GOAT72]

[ QUOTE ]
GOAT72

You need to identify yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]


No offense, but no... I don't, Steve.
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Let me just say that I am a writer and have done considerable research on Royal, PMD (from 1962 through 1973) and the Woodward Ave subsculture that evolved from what I like to call the "factory muscle car wars."
My screenplay is currently at The William Morris Agency. (heard o' them??)

I know that everything that "Mr. Bobcat" is saying is biased toward one individual's beliefs, but out of complete respect for that individual, I refuse to lower myself to Bobcat's level.

The classic car hobby is supposed to be "fun". I have only met wonderful people who would do anything to help his/her fellow hobbyist. There is no room in this hobby, or on this forum, for someone who choses to smear others and/or air their personal and financial shortcomings in public. It's not fair.
I am glad I joined the Yenko.net boards in time to defend a nice older gentleman like Milt, who takes great joy in helping others with free advice and tons of great memories from the good ol' days!

Thanks for reading my posts!
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif[/img]
~GOAT72

[GOAT72]

[ QUOTE ]
Since you like books, I'm sure you most own Jim Wangers Book "Glory Days." Turn to the Introduction chapter and read the introdution paragraph. Find my name?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eric,
There is a quote: "My friend Eric Schiffer is driving my 1969 GTO Judge. The Michigan license plates read: Wangers."

So you were:
a) driving Jim's car
or
b) you purchased Jim's car.
Congratulations... you are now a Royal Pontiac expert!

Gimme a break... based upon your photo, you were probably approximately 8-14 years old when Royal was in its heyday.
There's no way you can be over 50. So how could you have "been there"?
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
~GOAT72