70 Judge RAIV and V continuation

[pont406]

one of the articles of information sourced by Mrs bobcat, was from "Guide to Musclecars" Magazine August 1987 issue, i was looking thru my copy, 8 page article on the RAV motors! show pic of casting # 689539 WY, another pic show 98-V-400-RV-01, DS-1101 #1,EO-3777 both pics of same block .claims that the 400RAV passed 1970 emissions test,without a smog pump! the 303's had to have a smog pump to pass! claims insurance/warranty, plus having problems getting the RAV rods, manufacturing problems killed it's chances of being a regular production option engine.but that's not to say that something like the car in question "didn't happen" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img]

[Steve_Hoog]

Here's a pic of the code on Tom's bad boy motor.

[Norm reynolds]

I have a story that I find interesting on how GM is not all ways telling the truth Have any one heard of a 1954 Oldsmobile F 88 for the last 40 some years Gm has said that there was none around that were built at the factory This one car was at a display at GM motorrama and once out of the spot light it was order destroyed and never leave GM grounds This car was built on a 54 corvette frame and its body was all so made out of fiberglass but that was the only thing the shared with the vette the F88 was powered by
olds rocket 88 324 cid with a stock four barrel carb with 9.0.1 compression ratio
Rated at 250 hp It was backed with four speed Hydra Matic transmission with a 3.55 corvette rear axle it all so came with power windows Remember The 56 corvette only came with a blue flame six backed with a powerguild and did not even have roll up side windows
What happened is good old Harley Earl pulled a fast one on the GM top brass
He was ordered to dismantle the car and have it destroyed He did have it dismantle but had it crated up and it all shipped to his friend E L Cord Cord died in 1974 but his grandson remembered the stack of large wooden crates in his grandfather garage for years not knowing what was in them Cord nerved opened the all those crates
Later the still disassembled car was sold to Bill Barker but he did nothing with it so years later he sold it to Jim Brucker he also did nothing with it his son had said his father paid 1000.00 for it and remembered the large crates Six mouths after senior Brucker death The son sold the crated up car to Leo Gephart a classic car dealer for 3500.00 this is where the car finally was to take shape the story gets pretty long but the
Point is there is NO documents for this car no vin number and after 1954 supposed to never be seen again When you think of it this car for its day must have been fast as heck blowing away the corvette So I would say 95 % chance that there was never a RAV
Pontiac that was built BUT that 5% chance is who knows what some one could have done late one night have it disassemble ???? we might never know But do I feel that there are no documents to be found for the RAV just like the F88 it was not support to be Hear is the car today Bet Harley Earl must be laughing form heaven
[image]

[L67WT1]

Thats a great story and I agree that a lot of show cars and concept vehicles were hidden and were removed in a stealthy fashion from GM. I am sure the pride of the people who put these cars together and designed them from clay to a working vehicle was behind some of that and it would be difficult to see these cars destroyed. What ever happened to the Hot Rod test car Judge with the white stripes?

With the RAV story though many people that were involved with GM or doing testing for them are still alive today ie: John Delorean, John Sawruck, George Delorean, Jim Mattison, and Jim Wangers ( I know he was the marketing guy and the competitive nature between the dealerships). Let's remember Pontiac had a new general manager at the time in 1970. That is why the 70 GTO's got sway bars on the rear Delorean did not like them. I feel that if he was still at Pontiac at the time you would have found some 70 cars that had motors shipped and slated for a dealer install like the 69 Bobcat car.

It would be excellent to get a panel discussion going at the GTO Nats in Pontiac, MI next year with some of the above people to discuss this issue. I know I would sit in on it. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
With the RAV story though many people that were involved with GM or doing testing for them are still alive today ie: John Delorean, John Sawruck, George Delorean, Jim Mattison, and Jim Wangers It would be excellent to get a panel discussion going at the GTO Nats in Pontiac, MI next year with some of the above people to discuss this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

John's son, Jeff Sawruk (who is also a Poncho NUT!), is supposed to be checking in, and Mattison has been on the board for some time. So, looks like we're well on our way!

[copo9566aa]

Total production of RA V engine = 80 (Crate Block)
This is real or a legend.???

[Steve_Hoog]

I plead the 5th.......

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]
one of the articles of information sourced by Mrs bobcat, was from "Guide to Musclecars" Magazine August 1987 issue, i was looking thru my copy, 8 page article on the RAV motors! show pic of casting # 689539 WY, another pic show 98-V-400-RV-01, DS-1101 #1,EO-3777 both pics of same block .

[/ QUOTE ]

(Whomever you are?)

You need to go back and look at the photos in that article again. That is NOT the SAME block! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] One is from a ìcratedî engine (showing engine code), the other is a ìbare blockî (with no code). I think they are trying to show the difference between the two.

Here it is again...

RA V article

[Steve_Hoog]

Rita

Since the guy I talked to hasn't shown up yet with the engine data, I've been trying to work on your part. j/k Rita don't get upset.

This interpretation was provided by my front office employees that deal with our current new vehicle paperwork from GM. The terms have changed over time, so it's not a perfect interpretation: Date Shipped=what it says. Date of Note=day floor plan begins. Date of Execution=estimated date of arrival at dealership (this is a big guess, there is nothing like it in the current invoices.) Interest From=date interest starts with a time cushion figured in for shipping and paper work.

Again this has no bearing on a car that went to engineering, which I believe everyone has agreed that it did go there. The big question from this would be did it go to engineering before or after the ship date, hopefully some one that was around back then will step up.

[DaJudge]

This is getting a little old. ( Please do not take this as an insult or attack it is in a post and in black and white the tone is not intended to be hostile). No one except for maybe you and a few others believe that car went to engineering. There has been no proof to make that statement except a verbal from someone. There is no original paperwork that would suggest this. I know that before the factory to dealer invoices were put on fiche, notations would be hand written on the paper invoice if changes were made. See the PHS for a Judge convert I used to own. The date shipped was 2-05-70 and the notation was written on it 11/10/70. I am not positive what it means but it is 9 months after the car was shipped. My IV car has an option code 162 ADV.ASSN. COL, that does not mean it is something out of the ordinary. An engineering car you would think would have something I left the VIN visible so that if anyone wanted to run a PHS on it they would see this notation is real and not made up. Just like the stampings, if real proof is shown then I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I have nothing to lose or gain by this car being a factory car or dealer installed ra V car. I do like how this car went from a factory installed V car, to now an engineering installed car, what's next?