70 Judge RAIV and V continuation

[Jeff H]

Good work Rita, that is what I was suggesting for someone to look into. That engine production number along with the block date should help shed some light. I would guess the NICB should have the shipping date for that Judge as well so if the engine was built after the car was shipped, that should clinch it. Can anyone verify the ship date? I could see where a car could sit for a while like some of the COPO's did when components weren't available.

[Steve_Hoog]

OK, hold on a second. As I was walking through the parking lot I was thinking, we never suggested the car was built with the motor. We have been told that it was put in the car after production, in engineering. I don't know how long engineering typically had a car, but in the middle of winter there wouldn't be much hurry. Certainly for a car intended for the strip.

The date of when Knafel took delivery would be crucial. And we are still working off of Rita's theroy about the date code, that may not be right.

I personally have waited 6 months after ordering a GMC, because they were out of 5 speed tranny's. So the car waiting in engineering for a couple of months may not be to far out of reach.

I threw up the window sticker on the GMC just for grins, was an awesome truck!!

[L67WT1]

Steved, you need to reread the original thread the question from Astock asked "the question is how many factory ram air V Judges were produced [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]" You also implied this was a factory Ram Air V car, quoting the memo notation as proof on the PHS docs.

I believe Mrs. Billybobcat to be correct about the engine serial production number being an ordered sequence and that with only a handful of these engines produced for over the counter use it would make perfect sense that the number is a 6. You get all these other pics but not a date code?

This is the never ending post there have been many noted authorities like Jim M. and I believe an engineer from the engine shop that stated that this engine was never installed at the factory or engineering, but dealer installed.

What else do we need here the second coming? Unless a buildsheet, protecto plate, or an engineering change order that shows that code or serial production code is produced (from a legitimate source) it will always be looked upon as a dealer installed option, which I think is really cool and a unique piece of Pontiac history, a rare car with possible race history with a very rare engine.

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread but it is now like beating a dead horse we all need to agree to disagree and the majority of Poncho fans know what the real deal is.

[Steve_Hoog]

I believe it has been mentioned several times it is the responsibilty for the car to be proved.

Even though Rita is trying to dis-prove it, atleast she is doing something. And with here article post, pretty much smacked Don upside his head with his accusation of fraud. I wasn't going to go back on that; but since Don decided to step back in, there it is.

It would still be nice to get some perspective on the block codes, regarless of the RAV debate. I don't suppose you have a Pontiac block that you could add some insight with?

[Jeff H]

I wouldn't call it case closed until someone can show proof that the car arrived at Knafel before the engine was actually built. Does the PHS documentation show when the car was shipped to the dealer or when the car arrived at the dealer? Or can someone produce an NICB report showing the date Knafel got the car? That seems to be the next logical step in proving or disproving.

[Steve_Hoog]

Jeff

This is all I have, and it probably has nothing to do with time spent in engineering.

Jim M would probably be the next hope for documentation. Supposedly all of Knafel's records are destroyed.

[L67WT1]

Why would you bother this man again his quote below is from a previous post. If this car was real I believe he would be one of the first to talk it up.

"Guys Pontiac "never" built a Ram Air V GTO at the factory!!!"

Jim Mattison
Pontiac Historic Services


The RA V horse is starting to look like road kill it has been beatin so badly.

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the PHS documentation show when the car was shipped to the dealer or when the car arrived at the dealer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Take a look at the attachment in the reply that Steve posted about this question. The document clearly shows a ìDATE SHIPPEDî of ì11-06-69î It also shows a ìDATE OF NOTEî of ì11-19(?)-69 and a date of ì11-30-69î as ìINTEREST FROMî.
Think about it Steve. You work at a car dealership. Do you really think that the owner of a dealership is going to pay INTEREST for several months on a car that they have not even taken delivery of? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img]

[Steve_Hoog]

My families dealership never had a car go to engineering that I'm aware of, so I wouldn't have anything to look back on in our files to verify that either way.

Date shipped, could be the date it went to engineering, and interest from could be when it left engineering.

Rita your doing a great job, we just need some way to verify.

We have a man that will probably be making a post some time today that will probably establish your theroy on the date code correlation with the production number. He also thinks all of them started in a 6. If your theroy is correct, all we have to do is find the date it left engineering. It will either prove it didn't happen, or leave the door open.

I'm working on the your date code theory, you think you can find out if the dates on the invioce actually reflect engineering?

[Mr70]

WOW...MrsBillyBobcat
If you were MsBillyBobcat...I'd be calling on you! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Good investigative work here people,Keep it coming.