70 Judge RAIV and V continuation

[Steve_Hoog]

Jeff
I too have wondered about the number, the one block that I have had in my physical sight other than this one had the number only. No production code, no SR, and VIN... so I'm not sure. I'll check on the date code next time I talk to Gary, after I get to the bottom of the production code then I'll work on that long number. I should say if I get to the bottom of it, nothing about this has been easy.
Steve

[DaJudge]

Please find attached a picture of the stamping on the front of my RA IV block. This is off a one owner fully documented car. This RA IV JUDGE is a Pontiac Michigan Car which is where the car in question is from. Take a look at the font of the stamping the W in the picture you show is not even close to the style of the font on my block. Look at the engine production serial number above as well. I know for a fact mine is correct the vin is on the block to the passneger side of the timing cover. The casting or part number for a RAM AIR V block is also different as well it is not shared with any 400 block Pontiac Manufactured.

I have been involved with Pontiacs for twenty years, besides the Crystal Turquoise Bobcat car I have only seen one other car with a Ram Air V in it. The owner was restoring a 69 Judge and it was of course Carousel Red. The owner must have wanted the ultimate Judge and found and installed a Ram Air V engine with all the right parts in it. Purely PMD out New Mexico did this car and it was very nice, I saw this car at Dennis Kirbans GTO reunion show that he sponsored years ago. That engine had the block casting numbers but did not have any other markings on it as I recall.

From all the GTO's the I have owned and seen, the stamp on that block does not look right. I have a very open mind to ideas and would love for this car to be a factory V car. But this motor was never emissions certified and the only way that I feel that motor got between those fender wells is by a mech at Knafel Pontiac. After all the research I have done regarding Pontiac GTO restoration and history all markers point to a dealer converted car unless there is a Proctecto Plate or build sheet that shows a RA V serial production code in it this car has to be seen as a dealer installed Ram Air V option. Which is not a bad thing.

The only question I have is why do you or someone else want to make this car something it is not? If Knafel dealer installed this engine that is great. He converted a IV car to a V car as an option.

[Jeff H]

Your picture was not attached to your post. I'm not a Pontiac person so I have no idea what their stampings look like. I agree that a dealer converted RA V is a very special car like the early Yenko's, Nickey, Dana cars. The date on the block and the engine production number should shed some light on the timing though.

[Steve_Hoog]

I thought we were just having a general discussion about RAV? I asked to drop the debate of the car for now, and I was trying to find out if codes are on other RAV blocks. If they are, maybe then go into the actual stamping style or who when and why. I don't know that you could compare this to a regular production block.

[lowmile]

Can anyone tell ME where the casting date is on a RA V is? It must be VERY difficult to find.

[tjs44]

like all pontiac blocks,back by the dist hole.

[rdl]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Here's how one of the few prototype aluminum Ram Air V's escaped from the factory:

December 1969

Mac wheeled the truck passed the main entrance gate to the security post. The evening air was cold, and it nipped at his cheeks as he rolled down the window. The guard recognized Mac with a warm smile. "Working another late night?" he asked. "Not if I can help it", replied Mac with just an hint of scorn in his voice. The guard waved him through with a light chuckle. The truck continued on its way through the dusting of fresh snow that covered the grounds. Between two large industrial buildings, a faint brake squeal brought the panel truck to a gentle halt. Engaging reverse, Mac positioned the vehicle in the empty loading bay, set the parking brake, and killed the engine and running lights. The bay was dark and still. The compound was deserted. Checking his watch, Mac estimated he had at least one hour before the next sentry would circle past for a routine check. He took a moment to ponder his next steps.

Well seasoned and in his late 50's, Mac had been an engineer for almost 30 years. Climbing through the automotive ranks, he had gained the respect of his peers as a pioneer of performance designs. The last ten years had been spent in Pontiac Division's Special Design & Products Department. A cutting edge think-tank and design team assembled by the brass to point the division down the road of the future. With a generous budget, Mac's team had designed and built some of the most impressive performance platforms GM had ever created. While some of the ideas were incorporated into production designs, for reasons of pure politics and economics, the boldest of the designs never saw the light of day. This was never truer than with Mac's latest project. The thought of it boiled his blood. While showered with praise for his accomplishments, word had come down that the project, ... his baby, was to be canned. There was going to be a shift in design parameters for the next decade: high performance was out; emissions and economy were in. In fact, with the labour disruptions, the whole Special Designs team was to be disbanded before the end of the month. Right before the holiday season! "Heartless bastards", Mac muttered under his breath, knowing all too well he was also slated to be axed. Worse news yet: all prototypes and current ongoing projects were to be seized for immediate destruction. A decade of hard work and dedication was about to be cut up and melted down.

Mac brought a flame to a filterless Camel, and took a long, slow draw. With an affirming nod, he flipped the latch and slipped out of the cab. He swung the rear panel doors open and turned to the building. Rattling his keys he worked the big pad lock to the roll-top door. The bearing wheels groaned in a low thunder as Mac heaved open the big door. Darkness. Reaching into his pocket he removed a pen-light and brought a small beam of light to focus on the abyss. In the dim glow, there near the door, were ten unmarked, sealed crates of varying sizes. A smirk creased his now wind-chilled face. With a small dolly he quickly but carefully went to work loading the items into the truck. Fifteen minutes later, the roll-top door was secured and Mac was back at the wheel. The snow was coming down hard now. Just as well, he thought, it will cover my tracks. At the gate, his old pal tipped his hat as he passed. Mac nodded and eased the truck back onto the main road for the trip home.

As tension left his body, warm satisfaction moved quickly to replace it. His ultimate engineering achievement was now safe from the merciless fires of the inferno. The prize was his. Of the five working prototypes, he had assured that this one would not be destroyed...


... to be continued...


PS. Everyone knows this is tongue in cheek, right?
FYI - I'm just another one of the Pure Stock guys who's dropped in for a visit. Nice thread. Excellent info and impressive list of contributors. Cheers!

<font color="blue">rdl</font>

[68z302]

You forgot to add "It was a dark &amp; stormy night" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[gtomike1967]

Great story! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img]

[MrsBillyBobcat]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought we were just having a general discussion about RAV? I asked to drop the debate of the car for now, and I was trying to find out if codes are on other RAV blocks.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did I miss something? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif[/img] I thought you were trying to get this info to prove (or disprove) that "the car" came from the factory with a Ram Air V? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]



[ QUOTE ]
And Bill Shultz was a misunderstanding; I honestly thought he was one of the aynonmous phone call people, just faking an id to jack with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about it Steve, (and I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic here) do you really think an "anonymous person" would have THAT photo of his car? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img] (see attachment to his first post on page 13 of the original thread) If you look at the photo, you can plainly see that it was not taken in a public place like a car show, nor does it look like one of the published photos from a book or magazine (they would not [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img] use that photo with the TRUCK in the background) . That is a recent photo that we took while his car was being photographed for an upcoming book.

I will be back later with some information that will hopefully shed some light on this topic. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Rita [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PS~ I think I am spending too much time here! I had a dream last night that I bought another Camaro. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img]