1970 RAIV Judge Ragtops

[yellowjudge]

Colin, I see my crumb illicts a full course meal from you. Someone said something about your bright teeth after the sale, harmless, but jump on him if you want.
Price, it was an auction, sale price disclosed to anyone. Alot of people discuss cars @ these high profile sales, as do I. OK,short for Oklahoma, as I had looked @ that car back in 1996, think that is where it was then. I'm intouch w/prev. owner who inspected it, & told me what he thought. I'm sure it was a great car.
Not taking anything away from any RAIII cars, but you're a car salesman, so what ever engine, option etc your car has, it's the best @ that time. I'm sure all the people on this site would agree, a RAIII<RAIV. Would you say a Z-28 is =to ZL1? Or an SS 396=LS6
100k resto?, that's some resto, out of my league.

No raiv judge convert= to a RAIII in value, your a good salesman, but that's a tough sale!

[csx289]

Eric,
Again, with all due respect, my post was not an attack on you, nor was it in any way trying to convey that a RAIII car is worth anything near a RAIV car! My point, which I feel you have missed, was that in response to YOUR question of basically "If Colin's RAIII car is worth this, what is my RAIV convert worth NOW". My comment was that it would be quite interesting to compare the difference in values IF you could find a RAIV convert restored to the same level as my RAIII car,and offer it for sale in a similar venue.

Also, I had made the point that your comment of the car being "OK" was perhaps unfair , as YOU have not seen the car since its restoration - a quite exhaustive and expensive one I might add. If there was a previous owner of the car at the auction, he did not introduce himself to me. I would have loved to talked to him. However, that still does not change the fact that you did not see it - unless, of course, you guys share eyeballs

Finally, as far as what I veiw as being derragatory remarks as to my being a "car salesman" , yes , I do sell cars. I also collect and keep more than I sell. I have sold a good number of cars to members of this site , and I am sure that they would agree that I am a lousy "salesperson". I let the cars sell themselves, and some cars I could have sold dozens of times over, but I keep them. Why is that? Because I am as much as a car nut as anybody on this board. I simply have to sell some cars to make money to keep some, simple as that!

I have to say that all appearances aside, you seem to be a better salesman than me. Haven't I been reading posts (this thread included) about your cars and how much they are worth for a long time? I don't think I ever made a post about my black Judge convertible.I also recall speaking to you on the phone a few times when you were selling ME cars - or at least brokering them.

And yes, $100k is what it takes to do a good resto these days with real parts and show paint. I'd love to see your cars done like this at some point, they deserve it.

My invitation still stands, you are more than welcome to come to my place at any time and poke around.I think you'd enjoy it.

Best regards,
Colin

[firstgenaddict]

There is currently a 70 RA IV conv undergoing a complete frame off and I believe that the current asking price is $699,000. With the price going up as per current trends. Here is the link 70 RA IV conv.

[yellowjudge]

Colin, really nothing wrong w/selling cars, it's how you make a living. As far as value, that is really subjective, my thought is something worth what someone else will pay for it. Your Judge, must of been worth what you got for it, as two people had to bid it to that level. I'm sure it was nice, I saw pics awhile back in unrestored. Not sure if it was a frame off or on now. There was a guy there, who had the car from early 80s, I just went on his opinion.
Yes I did turn you to a deal, not offered any of my personal cars.
I've had 1 car done to a concourse level. My 69 raiv TA, is really standout, as I've been told by some very noteworthy collectors. Guess I have good deal w/shop I use.
I will say I'm glad too see these pontiacs finaly receive the recognition they deserve, should I ever decide to part w/any,real prices are being set now! I did see a 70 black RAIV auto car @ 699k!! It will be interesting to see what it really sells for. Not to take anything away from Hemi Cuda converts, but I believe w/production figures close, a raiv convert Judge should be valued atleast 1/2!

[Charley Lillard]

Judgeragtop.."It was an OK car, orig. had sandalwood top & inter. I'm sure he had nice paint on it!" When I read that statement I took it a a kind of slam. Yet you made it without even seeing but just going on someone elses opinion. I have seen cars that Colin has put up for sale and everyone I have seen I would be proud to own. I am not a expert on every nut and bolt of all the brands but his efforts on fit and finish are second to none when he gets done with them. You may have restored your 69 TA for alot less than the 100K talked about but I bet it was done with Friends, a few years ago and it took awhile. You cannot run a business , restore a # of cars and get them done in a timely manner by relying on Friends. You would quickly run out of Friends.

[yellowjudge]

Charley Lillard... Thanks for comming to the"rescue" of Colin. Colin is a car salesman, nothing wrong w/that, that is his profession, but collectors & sellers sometimes differ in descriptions.
Wow, I just said car had nice paint, as that was info relayed to me. I would not call that a slam. I'm sure the car was nice, not perfect that's my opinion. None are really perfect.
I don't reply to your responses to posts, & don't recall asking for your critique of mine.
My 69 RAIV TA is a highly done total resto, Phil will attest to it's quality. Not perfect, but I try to always fine tune it. I did farm out all mechanics/plating/ & found all nos myself, & did total diassembly. I have a new shop I deal with, $35 per hr, excell paint, best I've seen.

[csx289]

Eric,
Wow, you are just having a hard time with this post as of late. In the spirit of keeping this civil, may I please remind you that everybody including myself has made the point that you did not see the car and therefore are not qualified to comment on its condition with any accuracy.

Furthermore, I resent the continuous "used car salesman" comment, which I take as a slam. Historically , calling somebody that was about the worst slam you could give.I take offense to it , and remind you that I am a COLLECTOR who also just happens to sell cars , as much as I restore and keep them.I like to think that what I do, and the way I do it, is far different than what most people would consider a "salesman". Maybe, just maybe, if you took the time to know me as well as you feel you know the one car I sold that seems to be a bone of contention with you , you would realize that I am an entusuast just like you. Trust me, there are plenty of things that I could do that would be far more profitable than what I do now, but I wouldn't love them as much. Maybe someday I will fall back on my Advanced Automotive Engineering degree , or my years of study in Archetecture. Until then, I am going to keep buying, selling, trading, and COLLECTING cars.

Sometimes, my dog gets mad when my neigbor's dog "marks" his turf.The difference here is that we are not dogs, and I didn't piss in your yard.Why do I get the feeling that you think I did?

Now if I can just find my plaid sport coat, I could go back to the lot....

Colin aka Rudy Russo

[LVCamaro]

Don't get heartburn over this guy Colin...maybe it'll sink in the third time around.

SS

[dave hernandez]

Hi, everybody! I'm new to this forum, wanted to put in a posting with a few facts and a short story. About three months ago, I got my new issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines in the mail and I saw an ad with a sharp looking 70 Judge Convertible in it and I showed my wife of seven years the pic and said, "Hey, honey, this is kinda what my old Judge Convertible woulda looked like, restored, except mine had an off-white top and interior" A few weeks later, I was talking to a friend back east who's into Judge cars and parts, (not Eric) who said, "Hey, your old car is going up for sale near Chicago with Mecum" I said, are you sure? I saw that car and it has a black top and int. He said, yeah a collector who owned it in Texas didn't like the Sandalwood and changed it, when he restored it,before selling it to a guy in Milwaukee that markets them. Well, needless to say, after having owned the car from 82 or 3 to 96, I was interested in seeing it in restored condition, so I made the 3 hour drive to Belvidere, near Chicago to have a look, I took a copy of the PHS docs I had gotten for the car back when I first bought it, back then PHS was in Pontiac's headquarters and you called a number and requested it and they sent it out for free! Anyway, the auction day I found the car on display in the main auction tent, and asked the Mecum guy guarding it if I could take a look, he said Ok after I told him it was my old car, but he said the owner wasn't there, because I wanted to introduce myself and offer myself as info for a contact as provenance and info. (I had compiled a list of all the previous owners when I owned the car before, In Iowa that's available through the DMV, at least it was, then) Anyway, in the tent, I had a hard time believing it was the same car, until I pulled out my copy of the PHS and the VIN's were the same. The car looked sharp, but the stripes were Blue, Orange, Pink instead of the correct Yellow, Blue, Red. The car now had a hood tach, didn't come with one. Had sport mirrors, originally had chromed remote driver's mirror. Had a Formula steering wheel, originally had a Deluxe wheel color matched in Sandalwood, originally had door edge guards, now missing, originally had wheel well trim, now missing. The info board said, all numbers matching, including tranny,I was wondering how they found the original Muncie with the VIN stamped in it, because when I got the car it was gone and I couldn't locate it by calling
the previous owners. Back to when I bought the car, I had bought it from a friend here in town and when I bought it, the engine was out and the tranny and bell-housing and linkages gone, but that didn't bother me because I intended on restoring it and it was going to be a fairly easy restoration on a low mileage (67 or 76,000 mile car, I can't remember which) that I wound up selling after a divorce. The old 70 Judge convertible was a very solid car that just had a little rust in the rear quarters at the bottom, and I'm glad to see it sell for so much, it helps vindicate that I'd been saying since i bought it in '82 for $2500,that it would be worth a quarter milliom by 2000, well. I guess I was off a little! Anyway, as the saying goes, "that's the REST of the story! Thanks, -Dave