Someone Selling VIN and Trim Tags

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Actually, I've heard that this 'tag transfer' restoration technique has/is happening to a 'Supercar' as we speak!! Be careful what you buy [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I will take the details of this car to my grave with me, so don't even request me to post them on this thread [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Stefano]

Marlin,
Sounds like your playing both sides of the fence. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] For the record; if you have first hand knowledge of a VIN swap as you have stated, some disgruntled customer and/or federal agency could possibly hold you accountable ,to a degree.

When such info is discovered ,for example by members of the SAAC,it is reported in their news letter under "flashing yellow light" and a perminent record is kept to protect any future buyers who may choose to contact the club.

There have been members who have owned and since resold rebodied Super Cars with full disclosure ,and this is the way it should be ,no grey area here.

A rebody is a fraud unless it is disclosed! [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

What fence? What agency? These situations usually turn into a 'he said/she said' deal, with fingers pointing everywhere. Have you ever heard of this type of thing getting prosecuted? I haven't been around long enough to know.

This happens a lot, I just try to keep a mental note of which cars have 'suspicions'. I'm not going out on a limb on stuff like this, what would I have to gain? People just need to know that they need to thoroughly check a car before they buy it.

[elcamino]

Looks like someone got wind of it and the ad was pulled.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
˛2B6.1. Altering or Removing Motor Vehicle Identification Numbers, or Trafficking in Motor Vehicles or Parts with Altered or Obliterated Identification Numbers
(a) Base Offense Level: 8

(b) Specific Offense Characteristics

(1) If the retail value of the motor vehicles or parts involved exceeded $2,000, increase the offense level by the corresponding number of levels from the table in ˛2F1.1 (Fraud and Deceit).

(2) If the defendant was in the business of receiving and selling stolen property, increase by 2 levels.

(3) If the offense involved an organized scheme to steal vehicles or vehicle parts, or to receive stolen vehicles or vehicle parts, and the offense level as determined above is less than level 14, increase to level 14.

Commentary

Statutory Provisions: 18 U.S.C. ˛˛ 511, 553(a)(2), 2321.

Application Notes:

1. Subsection (b)(3), referring to an "organized scheme to steal vehicles or vehicle parts, or to receive stolen vehicles or vehicle parts," provides an alternative minimum measure of loss in the case of an ongoing, sophisticated operation such as an auto theft ring or "chop shop." "Vehicles" refers to all forms of vehicles, including aircraft and watercraft. See Commentary to ˛2B1.1 (Larceny, Embezzlement, and Other Forms of Theft).

2. The "corresponding number of levels from the table in ˛2F1.1 (Fraud and Deceit)," as used in subsection (b)(1), refers to the number of levels corresponding to the retail value of the motor vehicles or parts involved.

Background: The statutes covered in this guideline prohibit altering or removing motor vehicle identification numbers, importing or exporting, or trafficking in motor vehicles or parts knowing that the identification numbers have been removed, altered, tampered with, or obliterated. Violations of 18 U.S.C. ˛˛ 511 and 553(a)(2) carry a maximum of five years imprisonment. Violations of 18 U.S.C. ˛ 2321 carry a maximum of ten years imprisonment.

Historical Note: Effective November 1, 1987. Amended effective November 1, 1989 (see Appendix C, amendments 117-119); November 1, 1993 (see Appendix C, amendment 482).


<hr></blockquote>

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Can someone translate that legal jargon into layman's terms?

Also, how would a particular agency or individual trace a rebodied car back to the guilty party? How would a person determine who actually did the deed?

[Stefano]

The issue could involve both Criminal and Civil litigation. Yes,I have been involved at the Civil Level and yes I know individuals who have <font color="red"> done </font color> Jail Time for the situation we discussed . The FBI was the Federal agency involved, due to a disgruntled interstate customer.

Tom,
I would agree that SCCA is not perfect and a bit clickish. I have also been involved with a few mistakes that they have made regarding stated options and colors on particular cars.

I have recent Canadian papers on a COPO which happen to have incorrect info., so it takes more than one document or Club to help Iron out the story on a particular car.

No one person or entity is perfect. I still beleive SCCA is/has the best structure,which I have seen thus far, for such situations.

Maybe Clill can let you drag the Super Snake at the reunion against a few Super Cars to cure your Ford ills.

Remember they are Shelbys not Fords [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Chevy454]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
When such info is discovered ,for example by members of the SAAC,it is reported in their news letter under "flashing yellow light" and a perminent record is kept to protect any future buyers who may choose to contact the club.

<hr></blockquote>

The SAAC is far from the "model citizen", so that might not be the right name to drop! They've "dropped the ball" on more than one occasion, and we were unfortunate enough to find this out the hard way. There were 2 cars, with the same SAAC #, and it all started when the SAAC got LAZY. And, unfortunately for us, it came down to the classic "who you know" not "what you know". We were new to the Shebly game, and got treated as such, but the other party was VERY involved in Sheblys, so it was a done deal even before started. We took a pretty good loss, just to rid ourselves of the whole fiasco, and hopefully washed our hands of Shelbys...forever. And so went our short stint into collectible Ford cars.

Maybe that explains the anit-FoMoCo taste in my mouth... [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]