State of Hobby

[69L89396]

I'm going to change my option on this subject. What I did not think about is what happens to the "cloned" cars years from now when someone sells one to an unspecting, uneducated buyer for alot of money thinking they are getting the real thing, then finding out later it is a fake or clone. This kind of thing could have a drastic effect on this hobby generations from now.
The big question is how do we protect the hobby from this kind of thing. I really don't see a solution to policing the sell of cars and even the parts that are sold.
If you think about 50 or 100 years from now what will this hobby look like?

[Tom Hendricks]

I think you protect yourself in the car hobby, just like you protect yourself in life. Education and experience. The smarter you are, the less chance of getting burned. It doesn't hurt to have smart friends too !

[Unreal]

I agree with Tom on this. The most common argument I hear against the clone builder is that somewhere in the future some poor, unsuspecting buyer might get taken. Then in the next breath we brag about the great deal we got from some poor, unsuspecting seller.

We protect the ignorant buyer, but take advantage of the ignorant seller?

[TimG]

It is very interesting to read the Shelby Registry on 427 Cobras. Some original ID numbers from destroyed cars have been attached to aluminum clones. Informed buyers can determine a clone, uninformed buyers may get taken. Here, the registry will give insight to the true history of the vehicle.
As the history of cars gets cloudy, it may be hard to determine the true origin of many vehicles. It would be nice to have some type of Supercar registrty. I had a L89 Corvette and there was an informal registry for these vehicles.

[Rat_Pack]

Guys I have had some of the same concerns. Years ago I had built a Yenko clone before there was ever such a thing. Other than a few things that were wrong it was hard to tell it from a real one. However the trim tag would because I did not buy a repro one to change the color of the car. The original color of the car was Butternut Yellow which was not available on the Yenko Camaro in 69. I traded the car off after only a few months of owning it and it passed through a couple of other car dealers and eventually was sold as a legit car.

The kid that bought the car did not know it wasn't real as he was never told. Once he got the car home and was inspecting it is when he found out that it wasn't real. What gave it away, the 10-bolt multileaf rear that was original to the car! I never changed it as it was a daily driver and I never represented the car as a true Yenko. Well that kid tried to go back to the place where he bought the car and when he got there they were gone. Closed for good and not a car in sight. He ended up keeping the car and spent a lot of money making it correct. He bought a correct date coded MN code 427 with M21 trans and then he found a correct date coded BE rear axle. Now this car was correct except for the trim tag showing the original BY color code. Since then the kid (22 yrs old) has died from cancer and the car was sold to another dealer. It came up for sale a few years ago as a "clone" and is now somewhere in Alabama.

With repro trim tags still being made today, the owner could have a correct one made and then have a really good clone car. This car could possibly be passed off as a legit car say 10 years down the road and it would be hard to prove it.

How does this get prevented, easy, publish the numbers for all of the Yenkos and known COPO's. Once that is done this problem will go away for those cars. That is the only solution for this. However we know that some people still make money by confirming whether the car someone is buying or selling is a legit Yenko or COPO by keeping the numbers to themselves. I don't have a problem with that as long as there are still cars out there to be bought that are not documented. Now Yenkos are not the only cars cloned, how many 69 Z-28's are on the road today compared to the amount made? I bet it is close to double the original numbers. Clone/fake cars have been around for years as once people found out that their 350 Camaro was worth more if they added SS emblems and stripes then it went downhill from there.....................RatPack...........

Sorry for the long post but sometimes I get a little long winded.........

[69L89396]

That is an interesting story Rat_Pack. You can see how something so simple can get out of control.
I agree that there are alot of cloned Z28's but to clone one of those cars cost about the same as it does any other. The value of a Z is not like the big block cars and would be hard to make a profit in resale. On the other hand, the big block L78 and L89 cars bring allot more money and those can produce a profit from cloning. So how do you get a list of all the cars VINs that were made and where do you draw the line. I can see this being a huge problem for the future!

[Peter]

I do believe the known vin's should be listed. Its really the only part that can't be faked. You can get correctly dated parts, fake trim tags, ect. Can't get a fake vin and even if you could it is a much more serious offense and much easier to get caught. The very next owner will find out the car is a fake by the fake vin that is aleady registered with another car rather than the fourth owner down the line that has no one to go back to. I also believe a published list of vins may help to find some of the missing supercars that have been raced, butchered, and sitting somewhere not looking like anything more than a hulk of a car that people wouldn't even give a second look. About five years ago I looked at a car that was in the local paper. The guy said it had no motor or trans but the body was perfect. When I went there (by appointment) no one was around. I could see why because the car was very rusty and he probably didn't want to hear my attitude. BUT the car looked completely original, paint, int, ect, just in bad shape. It had power front disks, rear spoiler, 12 bolt, was a std trans car, and didn't look like any other options and everything looked original. I wasn't really thinking about what it could have been. I was just upset the car wasn't as advertised and went home. When I got home I started thinking about the car again and what it could have been. When I finally realized how stupid I was for what it could have been and my lack of having any knowledge as to what to look for at the time I called back for some more info, car was sold. It was cheap but not that cheap so it never left my head that it might have been something. A list of vins would have at least been a real good start if the car might have been something and on the list, if I was smart enough to bring the list with me!