Honesty in auctions.

[Lynn]

What Stefano said.

This one still boils my blood.

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthre...124851&page=11

124379N690139. Fake L-89 car that had all fake docs. They went so far as to create an ownership history under the name of Kenneth Wright in Florida. Kenneth had died a few years before they put it together. IIRC, the car was run through Georgia, where they don't title antiques, then paperwork presented in Florida. Then all the fake docs were created.

I gave all the evidence I had on that one to a law enforcement in CA, where the car may have been stolen. I never heard back. It included synopsis of my conversation with Kenneth Wright's executor who had known him since he was a kid. He never owned a Camaro, let alone a 10 10 L89 Camaro.

This was the worst case of car fraud I had ever seen. It sold at Mecum in 2014 for $200k.

No idea where it is now; but someone sure got screwed over.

[AnthonyS]

^ gah!

[the427king]

Uneducated buyers have no problem paying twice the market value of a real car for a FAKE car, yet uneducated AND educated buyers dont want to pay market value for a REAL car.

[COPO]

It's the same issue with all collectables and in some cases significantly more money involved. There is presently a disagreement amongst "experts" as to the provenance of a $450 MILLION painting.

The solution is always the same, conduct your own due diligence and hire an expert to minimize your chance of purchasing something that is not as represented and if you are not comfortable, don't purchase with your hard earned cash. If there is not sufficient time at an auction to investigate, then just don't buy at auctions.

[southernfriedcj]

Originally Posted by Lynn

IIRC, the car was run through Georgia, where they don't title antiques, then paperwork presented in Florida.

Just to set the record straight, Georgia does "title antiques".

If an old vehicle has a title it will be issued a new title if registered in Georgia.

If an old vehicle does not have a title, it will only be issued a registration slip when registered in Georgia.

If an old vehicle is on record as registered in Georgia without a title and then someone wants to register it in Georgia with a title(such as selling it to someone in Alabama, they title the vehicle there and then sell it to someone in Georgia with a title), it will not be issued a Georgia title.

I currently own a dozen or so titled and non titled vehicles in Georgia.

[southernfriedcj]

If I saw someone buying a fake car I'd give them my OPINION on the car.

I do not have the knowledge that a lot of y'all here have, so that is no likely to happen.

I could point out a "caution fan" decal though.

[SBR]

Originally Posted by the427king

Uneducated buyers have no problem paying twice the market value of a real car for a FAKE car, yet uneducated AND educated buyers dont want to pay market value for a REAL car.

Sad but oh so true!

[jeffschevelle]

Until it becomes a common outcome for someone who actually gets caught committing one of these frauds to get some real jail time, this situation is never going to change. The potential monetary rewards if they get away with it are so much bigger than the potential risk if they get caught (which is unfortunately close to nil in most states), there is no disincentive to keep doing it.

The truth of this is shown by how many times a car is "outed" on a forum like this, yet shows up again and again in auctions after that. And how often someone does get caught, gets sued and has to buy a car back, but simply goes to a different auction and sells it again with the exact same fraud story still attached.

If someone wants to help a foolish buyer out by sharing a belief that there may be a problem with a car, but not get themselves into the middle of the stink, a good way to do it would be to say:

"I'm no expert, but you might want to research whether or not ____". Or "I'm no expert, but you might want to verify ____".

That way you are not saying you declare it IS fake, or even that you believe it is fake. You are simply saying, hey, here's a particular item or fact that you might want to do your OWN due diligence on before you buy. Then if the buyer backs out, or proceeds, its all on him (just as it should be).

Using the Canadian LS6 story above as an example, you could say:

"I'm no expert, but you might want to research whether or not they actually built LS6 Chevelles at that particular plant in Canada". Or

"I'm no expert, but you might want to have someone who is an expert verify that deck stamp."

[Pro Stock John]

Once I found this site, I could not imagine buying something rare / special without checking you guys on here. I would assume some buyers loop in subject experts from this community.

[Teddy]

I'm more than ready to get back into a muscle car after selling my L78 Chevelle two years ago. But every time I read a thread like this I shake my head and say 'just go get yourself a C8 or a Hellcat Ted'. I'm often in disbelief what I see going on in the market. Shame.