Unsuspecting buyers with repro documents

[fsc66]

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[TimG]

For $100 the buyer could have sent the three documents off to have them validated. One hundred bucks vs spending whatever they did for a car. This is not uncommon, I saw it with a car that cost somebody over $200,000 last year. If somebody doesn't know how to tell fake documents from real ones, ask for help. If somebody doesn't know how to tell a fake stamp from a real one, ask for help. $100 may seem like lots of money, but there's lots involved in the validation process. It may seem like you're risking the deal of a lifetime holding off on buying a car for a day or two, but that's not always the case.

[Xplantdad]

Good for you, Dan!

[rsinor]

I've often thought there is a simple way to slow all of this down,

1 GM could require a licensing fee for use of their logos.

2 The producer of the document could include a statement that said reproduction not intended to be used as authentic documentation, or something similar.

[MosportGreen66]

Originally Posted by rsinor

I've often thought there is a simple way to slow all of this down,

1 GM could require a licensing fee for use of their logos.

2 The producer of the document could include a statement that said reproduction not intended to be used as authentic documentation, or something similar.

Roy, I agree. Doesn't mean you get a home-grown-hero attempting to make these docs on Photoshop but it is a good start.

Paul posted above he puts a water mark on his documents. I'd love to see what this water mark is.

Paul - can you please post a photo for us to see?

Dan

[rsinor]

In my world a watermark might be a nice touch, but it does nothing to protect the hobby, believe it or not the hobby is what this discussion is about. Without self preservation it goes away when fraud is discovered.

If an individual spends his major disposable cash on a fraudulent car, he can be so devastated he is out of the hobby forever.

Just as an example I know where there is a lawsuit waiting to happen over the blatant misrepresentation of a 1.3M dollar car. Collector car fraud is pursuable for 7 years from discovery. That means it is forever, if the current owner does not discover it and he transfers it after fifteen years. the new owner has seven years from when he discovers it. When these cases get tried they role downhill to someone, that someone is usually the party that forged the document or trim tag, the item that made it fraud to start with. My point is 1.3M is a big number maybe not to the current owner but to most and eventually someone will discover it. It could just as easily be 60,000, or 100,000 both are potentially big numbers to someone starting in the collector car hobby.

[cook_dw]

Originally Posted by TimG

If somebody doesn't know how to tell fake documents from real ones, ask for help. If somebody doesn't know how to tell a fake stamp from a real one, ask for help. $100 may seem like lots of money, but there's lots involved in the validation process. It may seem like you're risking the deal of a lifetime holding off on buying a car for a day or two, but that's not always the case.

This is exactly right.. The reality of all this is the buyer has to do the work.. All we as hobbyist can do is support the ones that ask and continue to expose the ones that pop up. As long as greed and ignorance are in the equation there is nothing more ultimately we can do.

[fsc66]

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[fsc66]

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[Charley Lillard]

Originally Posted by fsc66

On unsubstantiated high value, rare cars, non-numbers matching. Back of all those documents:

You only put the watermark on the back ? Couldn't I just copy the front and then there would be no watermark on the back ?