ZL-1 #1 Mecum May 15 - 17

[Nancy Gibb]

We have NEVER charged ANYONE for anything. That includes companies that made diecast models, any kind of paper work on ANY Fred Gibb sold cars. Diecast Model companies gave my Mom some models as she told them she didn't want ANYTHING, just happy they wanted to keep Dads name out there in a positive way. Anything anyone has gotten from us, as far as paperwork were NEVER charged, and we have looked up VIN NUMBERS for free, because we were happy to do it, and to help them with their documentation. We never charged ANYONE that my Mom gave permission to use the Fred Gibb Shield/Logo either. Happy they wanted to use it, and appreciated them asking for permission.

[Xplantdad]

Thanks Nancy

[Jeff Murphy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nancy Gibb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We never charged ANYONE that my Mom gave permission to use the Fred Gibb Shield/Logo either. Happy they wanted to use it, and appreciated them asking for permission. </div></div>

I can attest to the veracity of that statement.

[ORIGLS6]

Me too Jeff. I've reproduced the Shield logo a number of times for various individuals, and ALWAYS with the understanding it was done free gratis. Helen &amp; Nancy knew I was doing this and NEVER asked for a dime so why would I charge someone? If ANYONE should benefit financially for the use of this logo it should be the Gibb family. Legal issues aside, .... it's just common courtesy.

But back to Bill, .... I received a package a year or so back and the return address was Bill Porterfield. Inside was the original carbon copy of the Dealer Inspection Sheet for my Chevelle. Bill had attached a note asking if this was for my car, and if not to please return it. It was in fact for my car so I sent Bill an email thanking him and asking is I could compensate him in any way. No reply. Strangely, I also have the Original top page of that same document that was in the glove box when I took delivery of the car. Pretty [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/cool.gif[/img].

[Kim_Howie]

The Gibb family has been very good to me, I have never been asked to pay for anything by these people. But one person has been a pain in the A$$ on my car.

[Kim_Howie]

Bruce, I don't know if Bill P bought the paper work from the Gibbs. I also don't know if Bill P charges for the paper work ,but I do know he has made a lot of money indirectly from the paper work.

[William]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kim_Howie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bruce, I don't know if Bill P bought the paper work from the Gibbs. I also don't know if Bill P charges for the paper work ,but I do know he has made a lot of money indirectly from the paper work. </div></div>

Let’s step into the time machine and travel back to 1981. I was there so I know the full story, not the 5% being related here.

Due solely to the persistence of Bill Porterfield all 69 1969 Camaro ZL-1 VINs were published in Super Chevy magazine, not just the 50 that were supposedly built. A certain individual [not BP] wisely saw a business opportunity and ran with it. With an investment of time, money and effort over a period of 15 years he was able to acquire a dozen [or more] ZL-1 Camaros. These were all very profitably resold. To him it was a business, not a hobby-so be it. Many of those cars went on to be restored and again very profitably resold many times over. Once the market was established, other ZL-1s were located, some in excellent original condition. Some of those have been also been very profitably resold. ZL-1s that have been under the radar for many years will undoubtedly prove to be a wise investment when they reach the market.

BP first acquired the #3 ZL-1 early in 1981, prompting a call to Vince Piggins. That set events in motion that were in large part responsible for the ZL-1 body of knowledge as we know it today. In 1988 BP acquired the #1 ZL-1 Camaro. With a large investment of time and money the car was returned to racing trim. This was done with the approval and blessing of Fred Gibb. There are many photos of them with the restored car. Fred had been approached by others seeking documents over the years but chose to retain them. Recognizing that BP was an enthusiast and not a profiteer that was just going to flip his old dealership race car, Fred gave him much of the factory documentation for the 50 ZL-1 Camaros he ordered. Fred Gibb knew the value of these documents and understood they would be sold to help offset the costs of the restoration and maintenance of the #1 car. For the next 18 years BP campaigned and displayed the #1 car, promoting the Gibb name. The car has been featured in several magazines. Today Fred Gibb Chevrolet is known to virtually every Chevy enthusiast and BP deserves much of the credit. He no longer owns either; #3 has been re-sold a few times since and #1 is at Mecum Indy this week.

The ZL-1 Camaro VIN list has been public knowledge for over 30 years. ZL-1 Camaro ownership is an exclusive group; exclusivity is never cheap and no one needs the documents. If you chose to buy them to perhaps enhance the value of the car that’s your choice. It must work; the #9 car just sold at B-J for an astonishing $451,000. The small amount of money paid for the documents pales in comparison.

Several people, not just the few names we all know, have made lots of money dealing in ZL-1 Camaros.

[hvychev]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: William</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kim_Howie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bruce, I don't know if Bill P bought the paper work from the Gibbs. I also don't know if Bill P charges for the paper work ,but I do know he has made a lot of money indirectly from the paper work. </div></div>

Let’s step into the time machine and travel back to 1981. I was there so I know the full story, not the 5% being related here.

Due solely to the persistence of Bill Porterfield all 69 1969 Camaro ZL-1 VINs were published in Super Chevy magazine, not just the 50 that were supposedly built. <span style="font-weight: bold"> A certain individual [not BP] wisely saw a business opportunity and ran with it. With an investment of time, money and effort over a period of 15 years he was able to acquire a dozen [or more] ZL-1 Camaros. These were all very profitably resold. To him it was a business, not a hobby-so be it.</span> Many of those cars went on to be restored and again very profitably resold many times over. Once the market was established, other ZL-1s were located, some in excellent original condition. Some of those have been also been very profitably resold. ZL-1s that have been under the radar for many years will undoubtedly prove to be a wise investment when they reach the market.

BP first acquired the #3 ZL-1 early in 1981, prompting a call to Vince Piggins. That set events in motion that were in large part responsible for the ZL-1 body of knowledge as we know it today. In 1988 BP acquired the #1 ZL-1 Camaro. With a large investment of time and money the car was returned to racing trim. This was done with the approval and blessing of Fred Gibb. There are many photos of them with the restored car. Fred had been approached by others seeking documents over the years but chose to retain them. Recognizing that BP was an enthusiast and not a profiteer that was just going to flip his old dealership race car, Fred gave him much of the factory documentation for the 50 ZL-1 Camaros he ordered. Fred Gibb knew the value of these documents and understood they would be sold to help offset the costs of the restoration and maintenance of the #1 car. For the next 18 years BP campaigned and displayed the #1 car, promoting the Gibb name. The car has been featured in several magazines. Today Fred Gibb Chevrolet is known to virtually every Chevy enthusiast and BP deserves much of the credit. He no longer owns either; #3 has been re-sold a few times since and #1 is at Mecum Indy this week.

The ZL-1 Camaro VIN list has been public knowledge for over 30 years. ZL-1 Camaro ownership is an exclusive group; exclusivity is never cheap and no one needs the documents. If you chose to buy them to perhaps enhance the value of the car that’s your choice. It must work; the #9 car just sold at B-J for an astonishing $451,000. The small amount of money paid for the documents pales in comparison.

Several people, not just the few names we all know, have made lots of money dealing in ZL-1 Camaros.
</div></div>

William, thanks for the informative history lesson. Even as a supercar enthusiast I was unaware of the details surrounding the legacy of the ZL1 resurgence in the 1980s. As you said, it's a very exclusive niche of this hobby, one scores of us could not be able to be a part of. With that said, I am going to assume that the individual you describe in bold above has a last name that begins with C. Just so I can learn more about this part of the hobby, was he just &quot;given&quot; the list early on by BP or how did he learn the ZL1 vin numbers? Was there a list passed around in those early days like the Yenko inventory sheets were pre Internet? I am assuming that Mr. C. obtained the list and got to work looking for lost ZL1's before the list was published in Super Chevy Magazine. This is just very interesting in a general historical way to me and I would like to learn more. Thanks for your insight.

[SS427]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kim_Howie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> But one person has been a pain in the A$$ on my car. </div></div>

and that as well as other acts in my opinion have done more to hurt that families name than any of us could have ever done. Us putting signage on our trailers, front doors and walls of our shops, decals on the windows of our cars, etc, has done nothing but promote the families name and bring it more to the forefront of this hobby. By charging for every single thing that is put out there or threatening a lawsuit, people have said screw it and no longer will promote some of those names. It is very sad. I remember when I joined this site over 10 years ago I barely knew anything about many of these legends and because of the members here I am now very well informed. I do not know anyone personally who is capitalizing off of any one of these legends names but I know several that are proud to display others on their walls, fenders, doors, trailers, etc. Many a friendship has been made because of the reunion and promotion of these legends and many more have been lost over the frivolous bickering and lawsuits from others. It is time it stops and we bring our attention back to where it was originally intended. Dennis Hartweg has rolled over many times in his grave (urn) over some of the petty things that have taken place over the last several years.

[Xplantdad]

Exactly.... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/beers.gif[/img]