COPO VALUES IN GENERAL

[MultiMopars]

[ QUOTE ]
MM, you're being way too analytical here. You can't look to the price guides like the NADA on late models at auction. These cars are emotional buys, not commodities, and often times the STORY is as compelling as anything about the car. Dealers like Mr. Norm's, Berger, Dana, and Tasca had such a high profile, that many buyers want a piece of that. If history meant nothing, then factory Ferraris and Shelbys that won major races wouldn't bring any more than unsuccessful privateer cars. Going through one of the "BIG" dealers just adds cachet to some buyers (me included). Yenko SYC cars, even though mechanically identical to the iron COPO cars, are their own deal because they have their own IDENTITY, much like Shelbys. And most discerning collectors know that the COPO option was Yenko's brainchild, and that the non-Yenko cars were made after the fact. The Yenko brand has only gotten stronger through the efforts of this board and other media, and that is bound to create more demand. And whatever you think about the aesthetics of the stripes, they make the cars more visually interesting and give them a stronger identity. And if you don't think that makes any difference, then you need only look at the value differences of Judge and non-Judge GTO's to see the error of that view. Or even a Road Runner versus a 330hp Sport Satellite.

The heart wants what it wants and will often pay accordingly.

As for these WIW/value threads, they are a little distasteful, but are easily avoided for those who are not inclined to participate, IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]




My opinion, your opinion, tomato toma'to.


I respectfully DISAGREE with about 90% of what you have said here.
Here is why.
First I don't understand you first comment? Are you referring to LATE models from the standpoint of using an NADA guide for OLD car auctions or LATE model cars? Either way, an NADA OLD car guide is the last one I would use.

You must have missed my comments about the differences in buyers and certainly the emotional purchase falls under that as well.

I am all about HISTORY. In fact I am old enough to have lived in my heyday through this very history. Maybe that is why I feel the way I do about much of this. As far as I am concerned when you are speaking of an old car that COULD have been ordered from ANY authorized dealer why should WHO got the original owners money have any bearing on the price today? Maybe some of you younger guys are buying into this because you first learned of these cars through some of the books that have been published that taut these car and some of the DEALER packages etc.

There are exceptions and the Yenko cars are one but that is because of the stripes and lettering as you pointed out. Mr. Norm also had a special order of 1968 440/375 Darts that HE branded as a GSS. They were only available through him, which is another example of this. I would even throw in the Baldwin/Motion cars here simply because they had a HISTORY of being very competative race cars due to their "guarantee." This however could be likened to these cars that have a proven track record with a well known racer of the day that will command more money than a like car without.

Yenko did NOT invent the COPO porcess as it was used for many years prior for many special circumstance cars. I don't feel that the COPO order process is what gives value to these cars but rather how they were equipped through this process. It is just what has become the easy way of DESCRIBING what the car really is as it was not something you could find a Chevrolet brochure as an RPO.

I completely understand the differences between your example GTOs and Mopars, but in these instances mean nothing to the context of this discussion as they are either different models or sales packages, which we all know make a difference in values.

Your right "The heart wants what it wants and will often pay accordingly" but I don't think that people should be told that there is a substancial difference in the price of like cars simply because of where it was sold originally, above examples excluded. The bottom line is there really needs to be something "special" about the car ITSELF not just where it was sold. If this is something that eventually comes to be a FACT by virtue of proven sales prices where it can be determined THAT is why it sold for more, then so be it. In the meantime as a SALEMAN I can tell you it is simply the old car dealers that HAVE one in inventory or the SELLER/OWNER that is hyping this. I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone say that they are specifically looking for a car that was sold at a particular dealer to BUY other than the above examples.

As far as THIS WIW thread let me bring some clarity to this. I don't own one that I am selling, and I have no intentions or buying one. As I said, i am simply interested in old car values and what drives people's way of thinking on them and why. As you can tell, I have strong opinions on these things as obviously you and others do too. I consider this to be very HEALTHY discussion although I KNOW that often people have a tendence to get over heated. It reminds me of a time I was listening to two friends argue about baseball. One of them was an attorney and when some other outsider chimed in with "please stop arguing" he said "it is what I went to school to learn and do for a living."

[sYc]

"...In the meantime as a SALEMAN I can tell you it is simply the old car dealers that HAVE one in inventory or the SELLER/OWNER that is hyping this. I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone say that they are specifically looking for a car that was sold at a particular dealer to BUY other than the above examples."

I am not for sure what rock you crawled out from under, but you do not have a clue. "WHO got the original owners money" has a major impact on prices. Such names as Gibb, Nickey, Douglass, Berger, Dana, Harrell all will demand more $$ then a similar car sold by a unknown dealer. If all cars were viewed as equals, there would be no Supercar Registry or this site.

[MultiMopars]

[ QUOTE ]
"...In the meantime as a SALEMAN I can tell you it is simply the old car dealers that HAVE one in inventory or the SELLER/OWNER that is hyping this. I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone say that they are specifically looking for a car that was sold at a particular dealer to BUY other than the above examples."

I am not for sure what rock you crawled out from under , but you do not have a clue. "WHO got the original owners money" has a major impact on prices. Such names as Gibb, Nickey, Douglass, Berger, Dana, Harrell all will demand more $$ then a similar car sold by a unknown dealer. If all cars were viewed as equals, there would be no Supercar Registry or this site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for the warm welome to YOUR site.

Explain to me the differene in one of these cars as opposed to one that could have been order from Joe Smith Chevrolet?
Let me ask you this, would you pay signifigantly more for a 4 door Impala that one of these dealers sold simply because they sold it?
What possible effect does WHAT dealer sold it have on weather it is defined as a super car? To me a super car is define by its drivetrain. But it is your site so feel free to make up a definition that everyone here should bow down to.

[sYc]

"....would you pay signifigantly more for a 4 door Impala that one of these dealers sold simply because they sold it?"

Yes...


No differest then celeberity owned cars demanding more money then similar "Joe Blow" owned cars.

It happens every day.

[hvychev]

Multimopars, I am stating to think more and more that you are some troll that has dropped in here just to stir $hit up. Seriously, I don't think many of us are interested in reading every 1000 word manifesto-like post that you type. Maybe it is time that you should get lost and go to a Mopar site where you would be received with a "warmer welcome."

[427.060]

MulitMopars, with all due respect, It doesn't really matter if you think cars sold at some of the big name dealers should be valued the same as ones sold at "Joe Smith" Chevy. It's the guys that are buying them that determine that they are worth more. If there were 2 identical COPOs for sale and one has documents that says it was bought new at Berger, or any other big name dealer, and the other has documents showing it was bought at "Joe Smith" Chevy, the Berger car will always sell for more money. Whether you agree or not, facts are facts.
James

[Born30YrsLate]

...what has more value?...a Picasso or a lesser known artist similar painting from the same era...it's that easy...it's entirely on a buyers preference...some dealers from day 1 were all about performance thus their name has been attached to these special cars from then and that's what increases demand for them...

[talwell]

The value of these cars is based on thier pedigree - a car from the renowned muscle car dealers of the period have a much better pedigree than the unknowns. Yes, technically it is the same car but the pedigree is really what you pay for. I would much rather buy a car with a known pedigree for the bragging rights than to have a car from an unknown.

[Xplantdad]

MultiMopars, Most people that use/peruse this site exhibit a lot of patience regarding posts that they may or may not agree with...or to posts that have no really clear and defined answers and have been asked a million times (i.e., beaten to death).

I applaud the users of this forum for their patience regarding posts like this one. I tend to not respond to these types of posts...as most of the time it's a waste of everyone's time...but I felt the need to respond here.

First of all, most of the people on this site are very familiar (and are in tune) with current market trends and pricing on cars. Most of the people here are intimately familiar with Barrett Jackson and all of the other auctions in AZ and elsewhere...and how they are run and what happens at them.

Secondly, I went back and read through almost all of your posts and couldn't really find anything postive in any of them. You are either berating or challenging
everyone that chooses to respond to your posts because they don't agree with you. Then you BOLD certain words to make your point.

You may not see it the way I do...but it's fairly obvious to me, at least.

This is a site that has fostered a ton of friendships because of a common bond, the love of musclecars.

If all you can do is offer up negative post after negative post...with pessimistic or defeatist attitudes, why even bother?

Cars are cool...people are cool! Make it out to Pavillions sometime...or maybe even the auctions, instead of arguing on the internet.

It's much more fun...

[RPOLS3]

Bruce-

I am impressed with your professionalism here, you truly are someone who "gets it" as Mr. Cumby likes to say.



Jake