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Old 12-23-2009, 12:19 AM
MultiMopars MultiMopars is offline
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Default Re: Missing COPO in Hot Rod magazine?

[ QUOTE ]
The Manufacturers Statement of Origin [MSO] is generated by the firm producing the vehicle. It is in effect a title sent to the dealer of record and NICB. Back in the day it was probably in the paperwork the new owner took to DMV to title and register a car. As stated some race cars were never registered and could be "on MSO" forever. These days the buyer never sees it as most states now require the dealer to immediately title & register vehicles upon purchase. Point is no car got out of Chevrolet without an MSO. They did sell cars Engineering used for evaluation; the Pete Estes '68 Z/28 convertible is probably the best known and had considerable documentation to back it up. The '67 and '69 Indy 500 track cars are also well documented examples. As I stated, back in my COPO tracking days I did many title/registration searches. To conclude anything about a 41 year old car showing no registration history [as you seem to have] is folly. Back in '69 some states did not title cars; some registered them by county-there was no state-wide system. Cars that go unregistered for a few years are deleted from the system.
Chevrolet has insisted for many years that it has no build records at all prior to 1977. How the GM Heritage Center was able to verify your car is of considerable interest to many Chevrolet muscle car owners.

As for the car itself there were errors made in the restoration. I posted a photo of an excellent example of factory engine paint-how can there be overspray along the sides of the intake when the entire top of the engine was covered during paint? I was in the parts end of the business for 15 years; we had dozens of used HP aluminum intakes and I have seen hundreds more in the last 35 years. I have never seen more than a very slight amount on either end. How 409s with painted rocker covers may have been painted doesn't apply.

No one has stated you car is not what you claim it to be. Unfortunately the hobby has become inundated with fake body & VIN tags, re-created "aged" paperwork, re-stamped drivetrains and all sorts of fast-buck types making claims. Completely fake cars have been sold and are now in litigation. The audience has become quite jaded as you can imagine. Making claims about a historic provenance of ANY muscle car requires more than you have shown.

For my part in offending you I apologize. Let's see what you've got.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the above is correct. I will correct a couple of details.
Today it is called an manufacturers statement of origin(MSO) back in the day it was a maufacturers CERTIFICATE of origin (MCO) I am not sure what year it made the name change.
It is not the "title" to the dealer but rather EXACTLY what the name implies and is the doucument of ownership to the dealer from the manufacturer. It is the FORERUNNER to the first title (or registration) depending on the state. There were and are several states that are non title states and use a registration only to transfer ownership.
As I stated previously, if the buyer had no intention of driving the car on the street there was no reason to pay for a title application or license and the dealer would simply pass the MCO to the buyer.
Yes, dealer paperwork was typically held in folders in the bookkeeping office of the dealership. The buyers never had any reason or legal right to see those documents including MCO, dealer invoice, shipping paperwork, etc. The only thing that the law covered regarding new car paperwork/potential buyers was the Maroney window sticker which is required to stay on the cars window until the new owner takes legal pocession of.
I do not know if back in the day MCO info was reported to the NCIB, as the NCIB was created by the insurance industry for reporting of information regarding STOLEN cars and I don't THINK that all vehicle info was reported to them from the manufaturer.
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:25 AM
Verne_Frantz Verne_Frantz is offline
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Default Re: Missing COPO in Hot Rod magazine?

The NICB records are nearly 100% complete back through '62. '61 is a little sparse. Every MSO (or MCO) was sent to them. I found my '62 (through a police friend when it was easier) and it was never stolen or salvaged. That's how I verified the original selling dealer of my car.

And I apologize to everyone who thinks I was bashing or posting non-appropriate historical information regarding overspray.
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Old 12-23-2009, 06:31 PM
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SS427 SS427 is offline
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Default Re: Missing COPO in Hot Rod magazine?

[ QUOTE ]
And I apologize to everyone who thinks I was bashing or posting non-appropriate historical information regarding overspray.

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to apologize Verne. You are entitled to your opinion just as I and anyone else is. Without two different opinions we would never learn anything new or correct from supposed so please continue to add your comments!
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