Question On rebody? 1973 Z-28

[MultiMopars]

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Im response to all of this:

1. If you look at the areas of my post on page one that are bolded it clearly shows an allowance for removal and MOVING a V.I.N.


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You seem to be basing your opinion completely on the above statement.

You are incorrectly interpreting the statute. No where in the Federal Statutes that you cite does it say that MOVING the VIN to another body is a legally permissible exception. I have yet to find a State statute that specifically permits it either. Have you?

The Federal statututory exception addresses removing the VIN during a repair, to affect that repair and then refers to replacing it on THE SAME vehicle during that repair process. It never mentions MOVING it somewhere else.

You have some very intelligently stated opinions, but as even you said, that is all they are, opinions.

As a restorer, I would rather err on the side of not facing the possibility of civil lawsuits or criminal penalties than err on the side of looking over my shoulder for the cops (less likely) or some disgruntled purchaser with a flock of lawyers for the next 10 years (far more likely).

If you really want to have a rebody exception to the Federal stautes, someone has to put that into a bill form and run it through their senator or congressman. I hereby nominate you to do that. That would settle the argument once and for all and I could finally put down my keyboard and mouse forever.

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I am interpeting the statuate as written. The REPAIR can be many different things depending on the condition of the subject vehicle and what it needs to effect that repair. If the dash, or door, door frame where the V.I.N. is attached needs to be replaced it appears to me to be legal under the law. Who is going to stand there during repair/restoration during this process of the work to determine what was necessary?

People that challenge these things on a particular vehicle would have to be THERE with witnesses at the time it is done to offer any PROOF of what has taken place. Very hard to PROVE in court if it ever got this far. Personally, I applaude the people that step forward and tell the truth about what they have done.

I would much rather have a car that was restored with a donor body, parts/model specific switching, rather than one that was RESTORED by welding togather a bunch of donor parts on a body that was full of rust and tweeked in an accident. That car is a train wreck waiting to happen in a future accident.

Well, the below underlined verbage spells it out for me. As you know, anyone can take anything to task in court, but I believe the below (from the Federal law) speaks for itrself.

a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair

a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law

if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by— (i) the owner or his authorized agent

The thing we have to keep in mind for the HOBBY is the INTENT of the law. If you legally own BOTH cars and there are no stolen parts involved, then this is considered RESTORATION and has nothing to do with what the law was INTENDED for which is to twart car theives and chop shops.

Then there is the answer from Dynacorn that clealy state the expect many people to use their EXISTING V.I.N. on the new bodies they sell.

[njsteve]

A successful criminal prosecution or civil action does not require a human witness to the crime having occurred. Enough physical and/or circumstantial evidence is, in most cases, more than often enough to surpass the minumum standard - in a civil action which is the preponderance of the evidence, and in a criminal action, beyond a reasonable doubt. Jurors just love that CSI stuff these days. They just eat it up. One of these cases would involve all sorts of cool toolmark and trace evidence testimony. Imagine someone's entire toolbox being used to convict them when they match the microscopic scratch marks on the back of the VIN plate to that favorite screwdriver in the top left drawer.

As for Dynacorn, they only refer you back to your local state statutes, their FAQ section would be of no precedential legal value in court.


By the way did anybody see this, just hot off of the CNN newswire:

"The leader of a group of African-American converts to Islam was fatally shot Wednesday, federal authorities said.
Luquman Ameen Abdullah was one of 11 men charged Tuesday with conspiracy to commit federal crimes, including theft from interstate shipments, mail fraud to obtain the proceeds of arson, illegal possession and sale of firearms, AND TAMPERING WITH MOTOR VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBERS, the FBI said in a news release."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/28/...ing/index.html

[RichSchmidt]

Thats why if you are going to do this,get the right body{close to date correct and maybe even the same color} and do it right.Drill out the spot welds on any panel that has a hidden vin on both cars,weld the panels back together with the numbers on which car you want them,grind and work the metal to look flawlessly original,and then media blast the entire area so that the handiwork is undetectable.it can be done.If all else fails,use the firewall from the rusty car and graft it into the donor body.Keep your mouth shut and never tell ANYBODY.Good luck.

[67BelAir427]

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Thats why if you are going to do this,get the right body{close to date correct and maybe even the same color} and do it right.Drill out the spot welds on any panel that has a hidden vin on both cars,weld the panels back together with the numbers on which car you want them,grind and work the metal to look flawlessly original,and then media blast the entire area so that the handiwork is undetectable.it can be done.If all else fails,use the firewall from the rusty car and graft it into the donor body.Keep your mouth shut and never tell ANYBODY.Good luck.

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And one more thing. If you ever plan to sell a car to anyone in the future, make sure that you have never made a public post on the internet about "how to commit a Federal crime" using your own name!

[Dave Rifkin]

OH MY GOD!!!!!!, make it stop

[RichSchmidt]

And one more thing. If you ever plan to sell a car to anyone in the future, make sure that you have never made a public post on the internet about "how to commit a Federal crime" using your own name!

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Nobody would actually pay money for any of my junks anyhow.Usually by the time I am done fixing up a car I have to pay somebody to haul it away But the truth is that I would have been more likely to have done this back in the day to put a title on a race car with no papers so I could street race it,and back then it would have been more common to have taken a real bigblock SS car and tag it with a tag from a rotted out 6 cylinder thus making the car worth less in the long run,but that was back when "fixing up" your Camaro meant taking a sawzall to the wheel openings to hang some 13 inch wide slicks way out the side of it.