Question On rebody? 1973 Z-28

[njsteve]

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There were at least two re-bodied cars sold at B-J last January, disclosed on their display info.

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I don't think it is as big a deal throughout the hobby as it seems to be on these Internet forums based on what I see at some of the auctions where full disclosure has been made. basicly the people buying think if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has the V.I.N. of a duck it is a duck.

Yes, a few years ago there was a 1970 Hemi Cuda hardtop at B-J that had burned in a warehouse fire and was rebodied. They disclosed it on the auction block ON SpeedVision and it sold for $600K pluse buyers fee. that was more than any other Cuda hardtop during that sale including the 71s.

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I remember watching that auction, too. I was sitting around with a couple of buddies who investigate that particular crime and I saw their eyes bug out as they both looked at each other in disbelief at what they just heard from the announcers. They then had a race to see who could call the car in first and file the report.

[MultiMopars]

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There were at least two re-bodied cars sold at B-J last January, disclosed on their display info.

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I don't think it is as big a deal throughout the hobby as it seems to be on these Internet forums based on what I see at some of the auctions where full disclosure has been made. basicly the people buying think if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has the V.I.N. of a duck it is a duck.

Yes, a few years ago there was a 1970 Hemi Cuda hardtop at B-J that had burned in a warehouse fire and was rebodied. They disclosed it on the auction block ON SpeedVision and it sold for $600K pluse buyers fee. that was more than any other Cuda hardtop during that sale including the 71s.

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I remember watching that auction, too. I was sitting around with a couple of buddies who investigate that particular crime and I saw their eyes bug out as they both looked at each other in disbelief at what they just heard from the announcers. They then had a race to see who could call the car in first and file the report.

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Yeah, I know an AZ. ex state trooper that used to investigate stolen cars as well that thought something should be done about that situation as well, but the bottom line is, that unless there is a stolen car or parts involved, there is nothing illegal about it.

Most people don't like to think about it but how many of our cars out there do you think may have stolen parts on them? When you buy parts for your car do you investigate where they came from? If you are buying a part that has a V.I.N. on it do you call the police to see if that V.I.N. was ever reported stolen? Food for thought.

[njsteve]

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Yeah, I know an AZ. ex state trooper that used to investigate stolen cars as well that thought something should be done about that situation as well, but the bottom line is, that unless there is a stolen car or parts involved, there is nothing illegal about it.

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It is still very much illegal, it is just not that often enforced if the car wasn't found to be stolen, as they have much more bigger fish to fry.

A lot of retired law enforcement car guys work for NICB (National Insurance Crime Bureau). One thing I forgot to mention is that when those rebodied cars show up at auction, the NICB guys get the VIN number info and plug them into their database. Imagine your surprise when you buy that rebodied $600K hemicuda and try to insure it and your insurance company declines coverage, and then every other insurance company you call after that also declines coverage as the car has been redflagged as a rebody in the insurance crime database. OUCH!

[MultiMopars]

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Yeah, I know an AZ. ex state trooper that used to investigate stolen cars as well that thought something should be done about that situation as well, but the bottom line is, that unless there is a stolen car or parts involved, there is nothing illegal about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is still very much illegal, it is just not that often enforced if the car wasn't found to be stolen, as they have much more bigger fish to fry.

A lot of retired law enforcement car guys work for NICB (National Insurance Crime Bureau). One thing I forgot to mention is that when those rebodied cars show up at auction, the NICB guys get the VIN number info and plug them into their database. Imagine your surprise when you buy that rebodied $600K hemicuda and try to insure it and your insurance company declines coverage, and then every other insurance company you call after that also declines coverage as the car has been redflagged as a rebody in the insurance crime database. OUCH!

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I don't believe that.

Did you read my post on page one of this thread? The Federal law is quite clear on this. Now if the V.I.N. showed up as an earlier reported STOLEN car, it would be a different story and the car would be confiscated as stolen property. An insurance company has no legal right to refuse insurance on a rebodied car. The insurance companies SELL totaled cars to wreck rebuilders all the time who graft two totaled cars togather and use ONE V.I.N. as has been going on for decades.

Think about this. In 1971 you had a 1969 Chevelle that was in a front end collision. The adjuster allowed for a used front clip. Fast foward 1 year. This same car is hit in the rear. The adjuster allows for a used rear clip. now you have a car made up from TWO different cars for the original THIRD car in this senerio that is using the V.I.N. from the original car. Do you think they are denying insurance coverage for this car then or NOW?

[njsteve]

Your example is perfectly legal as a repair, provided the VIN has not been removed from the original car (in the center).

NICB maintains records on people, driving records, motor vehicles, any past claims on them, especially fraudulent activity, etc. Anything that would affect the rights/remedies of an insurance company is added to the database and cross referenced by the VIN or biographical information. In other words, you can bet an insurance company would be interested if they are insuring a car for $600k that is worth only $150K due to VIN tampering/rebodying.

Did you read my response to your earlier post? I guess not. You have no actual experience with Federal law. I do. You can either believe what I tell you from my experience or not. I don't really care.

It's people who don't follow legal advice, that I make my living, dealing with.

I'm done. Anything more and I bill for my hours.

[Smokey]

Wow...and just think what happens in the street rod world!!! The feds could take 85% of the cars at the Street Rod Nats if they wanted to be pricks and do a sting.

[njsteve]

Don't the home-made street rods usually get some type of state-issued VIN plate for registration purposes?

[MultiMopars]

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Don't the home-made street rods usually get some type of state-issued VIN plate for registration purposes?

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Some do some don't. It usually depends on wheather or not there is a legal valid title for the car that was modified.

Lets use as an example a 32 Ford streetrod. Regarless of the updated engine, suspension, wheels, instruments, A/C, or any other upgrades to the car the owner made, it is STILL a 32 Ford. If legal title hasn't been lost over the last 77 years then it is still used to title and license the car. If it has been lost then the guy has to deal with the State he is trying to register it in. Typically the State DMV inspector is going to try and determine what the car started life as, try to find and original V.I.N. for the car, check to see if it was ever reported stolen, look for V.I.N.s of any parts attached, check to see if they are reported stolen, etc. THEN, regardless of weather it has a FACTORY V.I.N. plate or not they MAY create a State issued V.I.N. plate and attach it and create a control number with a file of their actions that will follow the car for the rest of it's life. In this example of a lost title, it is the discretion of the inspector regarding a State issued V.I.N. tag. However, MOST people are aware that titles for older cars are easy to get and do so BEFORE the show up at a DMV office and don't have to deal with this. The thing that you ALWAYS want to do when you are considering buying a car without a title is to call law enforcement with the V.I.N. and tell them you are considering buying the car and ask them to check and see if it has ever been reported stolen BEFORE you buy it.

Back to the street rod senario. A street rod is typically NOT considered "home made." As stated above, they begin life and are still considered by the law and DMV as what the were born regardless of the modification made to them.

V.I.N. plates for "home made" licensible items are things such as trailers. Some home built motorized vehicles such as kit cars, motorcycles, and cars built from scratch can also fall into this catagory, but it has become much harder to comply to federal and state laws to make this cost effective for most people.

[Xplantdad]

On the other hand...then there is this...

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/...feature16.html

[SuperNovaSS]

Steve, This has been gone over so many times on this site. You should just save the time and start copy and pasting your old responses.


Jason