Question On rebody? 1973 Z-28

[njsteve]

Don't bother. It's illegal to rebody. Is it worth looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life wondering if/when you'll get sued by some future purchaser and/or charged with felonies for swapping a VIN to a new shell and removing a VIN from the donor shell?

[Salvatore]

I am sure you can find yourself a real nice 1973 Z/28 for reasonable money. Not sure why anybody would even consider all that work/money for a 73 Z/28 or even a 69 Z/28 for that matter. Way to many of them out there IMO. Even if you did all that work yourself it would have to add up to double of what that car is worth.

[beater68427]

[ QUOTE ]
I am sure you can find yourself a real nice 1973 Z/28 for reasonable money. Not sure why anybody would even consider all that work/money for a 73 Z/28 or even a 69 Z/28 for that matter. Way to many of them out there IMO. Even if you did all that work yourself it would have to add up to double of what that car is worth.

[/ QUOTE ] I probably will pass on it, it has just been on my mind the last couple days and I like the fact that all the original stuff is there, but that is all it has going for it. I did a parts cost including the shell I know of and came up with 13k in the car done but that is not my time at all. I kinda like to work for .05 an hour it seems.... I think I better pass on this project!

[MultiMopars]

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[ QUOTE ]
I am sure you can find yourself a real nice 1973 Z/28 for reasonable money. Not sure why anybody would even consider all that work/money for a 73 Z/28 or even a 69 Z/28 for that matter. Way to many of them out there IMO. Even if you did all that work yourself it would have to add up to double of what that car is worth.

[/ QUOTE ] I probably will pass on it, it has just been on my mind the last couple days and I like the fact that all the original stuff is there, but that is all it has going for it. I did a parts cost including the shell I know of and came up with 13k in the car done but that is not my time at all. I kinda like to work for .05 an hour it seems.... I think I better pass on this project!

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree that for this particular car it would not be cost effective regarding the end value of the car. the absolute BEST #1 1973 Z28 should be a top price of $30K and probably far less in this market time.

[MultiMopars]

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Don't bother. It's illegal to rebody. Is it worth looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life wondering if/when you'll get sued by some future purchaser and/or charged with felonies for swapping a VIN to a new shell and removing a VIN from the donor shell?

[/ QUOTE ]


Oh boy, this is a can of worms that is CONSTANTLY heatedly discuss on mopar sites. There is a difference between what SOME people consider ETHICS vs. LAW.

Let me say that what I am posting here is the LAW and not MY personal opinion.


Here is the link to the Federal law:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/searc...11----000-.html

I have highlighted the areas that specifically show that it is not illegal in the regard we are referring to in the hobby.

(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).
(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection are—
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;
(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law; and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the motor vehicle, or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with or alter the decal or device by— (i) the owner or his authorized agent; (ii) applicable State or local law; or
(iii) regulations promulgated by the Attorney General to implement the Motor Vehicle Theft Prevention Act

it is my understanding that some States have laws against it that do not spell out exceptions for the hobby. However, any links to individual State laws that have been sent to me I HAVE found a similar exception to the Fed. law.

The bottom line is, THE INTENT of the law. It is basically spelled out in the FEDERAL law. The law was created to thwart criminals trying to hide stolen vehicles, NOT the car hobby, restorations, lost V.I.N. of legal owners.

Futhermore, when Dynacorn first started offering complete bodies for 1969 Camaros this came up. Below is a copy and paste from their FAQ section addressing this.



Question: 2005/06/29

What about the VIN?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer: 2005/06/29

A Vehicle or Vessel Identification Number (VIN) is issued by a manufacturer or State Licensing authority. There are three ways for a vehicle to obtain a number.

1) An existing VIN on a vehicle that is titled in your name can be transferred to a repair part (as instructed by your State authority).
2) A number may be issued by your State to ID a custom built vehicle when it passes a safety and number verification inspection.
3) A licensed manufacturer issued a VIN when the vehicle (or vessel) is made and ready for delivery. This can only be issued when a "turn key" (completed) car, truck, boat or aircraft has been manufactured.


Many people are not aware that this happens all the time with wreck rebuilders when two cars are grafted togather and of course only ONE V.I.N. can be used.

With Mopars since they are unibodies the REAL question is, how much of a chunk of the original unibody with the V.I.N. attached has to remain to make a difference between a conventional restoration vs. a rebody. The V.I.N. plate is attached to the door on 67 back cars and on the dash panel on 68-up cars. BOTH of these items are bolt on items, so do you simply bolt THOSE items to a donor body and call it a conventional resto? It all boils down to what the owner can live with in their own minds.

Rebodys go on in the secret of individual garages simply because even though it is legal in the eyes of the Federal law it is still frowned upon by SOME of the hobby.

[markinnaples]

Would it be worth buying it and getting a 6 cyl 70-73 and making a clone out of it?

Is it for personal use or to flip?

[king_midas]

Only illegal if the car that is being destroyed is stolen. If you keep the titles for both cars, and document the swap, you're good to go.

Why everyone gets their panties in an bunch over this is beyond me. It's nothing different than a motor swap...

In Cali, they look at all numbers when inspecting a car, and if your eng # doesn't match, you have to prove where it came from, as they're on the lookout for theft.

This is no different.

[William]

There were at least two re-bodied cars sold at B-J last January, disclosed on their display info.

[MultiMopars]

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There were at least two re-bodied cars sold at B-J last January, disclosed on their display info.

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I don't think it is as big a deal throughout the hobby as it seems to be on these Internet forums based on what I see at some of the auctions where full disclosure has been made. basicly the people buying think if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has the V.I.N. of a duck it is a duck.

Yes, a few years ago there was a 1970 Hemi Cuda hardtop at B-J that had burned in a warehouse fire and was rebodied. They disclosed it on the auction block ON SpeedVision and it sold for $600K pluse buyers fee. that was more than any other Cuda hardtop during that sale including the 71s.

[njsteve]

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There were at least two re-bodied cars sold at B-J last January, disclosed on their display info.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it is as big a deal throughout the hobby as it seems to be on these Internet forums based on what I see at some of the auctions where full disclosure has been made. basicly the people buying think if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and has the V.I.N. of a duck it is a duck.

Yes, a few years ago there was a 1970 Hemi Cuda hardtop at B-J that had burned in a warehouse fire and was rebodied. They disclosed it on the auction block ON SpeedVision and it sold for $600K pluse buyers fee. that was more than any other Cuda hardtop during that sale including the 71s.

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I remember watching that auction, too. I was sitting around with a couple of buddies who investigate that particular crime and I saw their eyes bug out as they both looked at each other in disbelief at what they just heard from the announcers. They then had a race to see who could call the car in first and file the report.