Pontiac may be dead by monday..

[70 copo]

Numbers for both 1995 and 1996 listed at that web site are incorrect. Industry trade Journals did report total assembly output with a higher number in 1995 as 122,844 which was classified as "units" (Ste Therese also made firebirds) and the web site you posted above has another completely different set of production numbers which I have no idea where they got for both 1995 and 1996. Could be a combination of model year vs calander year and industry unit info mixed in.

[markinnaples]

Give me a break. GM has made Shiite for the last 20 years, and you want to compare the latest and greatest GM vehicle made to Japanese vehicles that have had excellent quality for over 30 years.

I love America, more than most, but you have to admit the American cars since about 1974 to 2005 have sucked.

My wife has a 2000 Grand Prix that is the biggest POS ever. Now, you can't expect to produce crap for 20+ years and then win some people over in two or three years.

GM and Chrysler need to go bankrupt, renegotiate the union contracts and make the best quality cars in the world, again. Then, maybe they will come back and be profitable.

[BJCHEV396]

No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure Obama will let us know shortly.

[442w30]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure Obama will let us know shortly.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's the President's fault that GM has problems?

To another point, I find it hard to believe someone thinks GM has made crap through 2005. Certainly if you've had problems with your '00 Grand Prix, you have a right to be angry. But I think GM has made some pretty decent cars in the past 20 years. The dark ages were the 1970s and the X-cars. GM has had a lot of bright spots over recent history. Today, it's business model needs a drastic revamp even more than Impala.

[markinnaples]

There have been some bright spots during that time period (94-02 F bodies, new GTO, their trucks, Caddy's, etc.) but for the most part, their quality has just not been there, and that's the truth backed by millions of owners. Sorry, but that's reality.

[Tenney]

The quality of the recent domestic stuff we've had has surpassed that of our imports from a reliability standpoint (ie fewer defects/warranty repairs). Better paint/finish, too, in many cases. Interior materials not so much.

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure Obama will let us know shortly.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's the President's fault that GM has problems?

To another point, I find it hard to believe someone thinks GM has made crap through 2005. Certainly if you've had problems with your '00 Grand Prix, you have a right to be angry. But I think GM has made some pretty decent cars in the past 20 years. The dark ages were the 1970s and the X-cars. GM has had a lot of bright spots over recent history. Today, it's business model needs a drastic revamp even more than Impala.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never said GM made crap. Quite to the contrary some of the best cars they ever made were built this decade-most certainly in the area of performance. The problem is and has been for decades bloated unions,skimpy warranties,and corporate arrogance.

You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.

Yeah i'm pissed because most of us here are/were infinitely more passionate about GM than the last twenty years worth of CEO's. Come on the 5TH gen is a classic case in point on how to miss the boat once again. How many stangs and Challengers have been sold in the last two years?? It really doesn't matter now,they are being nationalized as we speak and yes Obama is the defacto CEO. That's what happens when you don't get your ducks lined up- they had YEARS to initiate change and elected not to trim the fat. Just wait and see what castrated products are going to be offered in a couple of years from an auto giant run by politcians. It is not this admins fault- the blame lies squarely on Lutz and Waggoner IMO

A real shame.

[442w30]

[ QUOTE ]

I never said GM made crap.


[/ QUOTE ]

I never said you did, hence my intro, "To another point," as I was addressing two comments in one post.

[ QUOTE ]
You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think some of the folks of Michigan and elsewhere will find your comment about hillbillies to be truthful. Besides, doesn't an import manufacturer have a plant in Kentucky?

[ QUOTE ]
It really doesn't matter now,they are being nationalized as we speak

[/ QUOTE ]

So when Chrysler took their loan in 1979 or so, did you consider them "nationalized?"

[ QUOTE ]
That's what happens when you don't get your ducks lined up- they had YEARS to initiate change and elected not to trim the fat.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, when you borrow some money from the government to sustain yourself, there will be some terms to be met. And judging by all the interest in numerous forums, I would think most people don't understand that GM needed to trim the fat a long time ago but didn't due to their brands being institutions. Now they're up against the wall and they have no other choice. It was a valiant effort, but it should have been done long ago. Personally, I don't blame them for resisting, but when the rest of the world operates in a competitive manner (and while the world has become more global), why did GM continue to lug this weight around?

[ QUOTE ]
Just wait and see what castrated products are going to be offered in a couple of years from an auto giant run by politcians. It is not this admins fault- the blame lies squarely on Lutz and Waggoner IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Get over yourself - the government is not running GM, and nothing's gonna be watered down. And GM would not have its current successes without Lutz, as he opened many doors that were kept closed by GM's clumsy bureaucracy.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]

You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.


[/ QUOTE ]

In order to make 100,000 a year in an auto plant one would have to work 12 hours during the week and 16s on the weekends. One would have to sleep in their car between shifts and sometimes not go home for two days. And guess what? no one has made 100,000 in a long time. The days of unlimited overtime are over. A 40 hour check is all they see.

And for you information, the hillbillies that work for Toyota down in Georgetown make more than the Detroit hillbillies do. Are you pissed about that too?