Olds W30

[RM Schimel]

This particular Matador red W-30 went through the spring Mecum auction last year and stalled at 150K. It was also was up on E-bay and stalled. At both prior sale attempts the car had NO DOCUMENTATION whatsoever. So the current level of documentation with a partial build sheet and a re-printed window sticker is a bit suspect. This is not a Troy Thornton restoration …it was restored by Matt Woods from East Coast Classic Auto & Restoration another Oldsmobile exclusive restoration shop. The car looked as if it came out of the grave. One would not be surprised if a donor car were used in the restoration process. This car has a lot of questions surrounding it, which was dramatically reflected in the selling price. RM



http://mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail...D=SC0508-67445

[68l30]

Must be the week for Olds...A friend of mine just scored a 70 W-30 ragtop.. Complete minus trans (4 speed) with a W-27 rear...Orange on Black and fairly loaded from what he told me...Red innner fenders and all....The car has some mud in it and needs to be restored....$1500 bux!!! I told him to load it up and run!!!

Steve

[csx289]

RM just stated the same things I heard about the docs for the B-J car. I had not seen the "before" pics prior to Paul posting the link- holy cow Docs or not, even if the car is real what do you really have? But that is a whole 'nother debate.

The 442 HT on eBay is not a W30. It is a W25 (OAI hood) car. Note the side stripes.

Re. B-J WPB vs. Russo and the Az auctions, yes, I would expect prices to be higher in Az. Everybody is there, while not many people I know go to the other B-J sales as a combined result of low number of "good" cars and the travel issue. Much easier to go to Az for a week and see hundreds of good cars than to go to WPB for a week and see two. Also, Dana Mecum's upcoming sale has an incredible level of great cars and I know many are holding their pennies until then !!

Stealth, as you pointed out, W-Machines are not like Pontiacs. Much more like LS6 cars, etc. But if you can get real docs and have a real car they are great, rare, fast, unique cars. The problem is finding them!

So all we can say is that B-J sold a car some aren't sure of for about the same as Russo sold the blue car that we were all sure of and some clones are selling cheap. Don't think it tells us much about the true market for good cars. Paul, would you agree? And I'd love to see pics of the $1500 orange 4 speed car, sounds awesome!

Colin

[TimG]

I'm a big Olds 442 fan and the prices are all over the board for these cars. I'll be interested to see what the orange non 1970 W-30 on ebay goes for. No AC and Hurst automatic. I like them that way.

[Stefano]

The Blue 442 had also been at Mecum prior. It was presented with very conflicting information and no factory documents proving its W-Machine Status. It had some additional affidavits when it was sold at Russo.

The former local "Black" 442 4 speed, with W30 parts was also not an original Black car. Repro trim tags are cheap!

The Red/White 442 was at Mecum this past Spring with no Factory Documentation displayed.

Also, eBay is not what it once was. We just sold a Hemi Cuda for more than 2Xs the high bid on eBay. eBay is just a way to get exposure, at this point.

[Canuck]

Mike
Just to keep the record straight, I have no suspision about the legitimacy of the Red/White W30 just sold at the BJ Florida auction. See their photos at www.mission442.com. There is no where implied that this car was restored by Thornton,to the best of my Knowledge.
Thornton did restore a Red/White automatic car that sold at Russo in 2006,it is for sale here, http://www.worldwidemusclecars.com/

As for the twilite blue car, the owner who sold it ar Russo is a good friend and I have inspected and driven that car. Although it has no build sheet I feel strongly that it is the real deal based on the paperwork he does have and, although it is repained it has not been restored.

Getting back to the Red/White car, I have left a message with a well connect Olds guy who relayed a story about a 70 442 ragtop that he and another fellow bought about 4 years ago and in retreiving that car the frame split in two dragging it onto the rollback. The photo at mission 442 looks like it could have been the same car.

On the subjet of Muscle car prices, Oldsmobiles seem to be doing well in todays market, they never jump as high as The LS and Hemi cars and dont fall as hard when th market softens.
I know of several private sales where documented W30 ragtops have sold $225,000 to $250,000.

Paul

[mockingbird812]

So, if I understand what you saying, Colin, you need more than $1K ? I'll be happy to take your counter offer off line.

[Canuck]

Quote"Getting back to the Red/White car, I have left a message with a well connect Olds guy who relayed a story about a 70 442 ragtop that he and another fellow bought about 4 years ago and in retreiving that car the frame split in two dragging it onto the rollback. The photo at mission 442 looks like it could have been the same car."

Got a call back,same car. It is a real deal, beautiful resoration,extensive parts replacement,rear end could not be salvaged it was so rusty,frame damage as well.


Paul

[Canuck]

I have looked at the photos of this car and it appears to be a beautiful restoration.
What concerns me when a car is presented by one of the countrys top restoration shops, are the number of variances from stock when one is lead to believe the car is factory correct because "so and so" did it.
The shop may have a reputation for beautiful paint,panel fit and upholstery but its the details that hurt a car from being presented as top of its class.
On this car I see the following:

Chrome wheels are incorrect for the year.
Spare wheel lookks like a 14X6 from a 69 or earlier.
Spare tire doesnt match (why have a radial spare with bias ply street tires)
Toronado Oil Pan
Sway bar links in upside down
Over stickered. Rear end has a Coil spring ID tag on it.
Aftemarket rear sway bar with an Olds assembly line tag.
Wrong placement of jack tag.
Body plugs should be splatter covered in trunk.

If you are going to spend that kind of money yo restore this car,spend the extra $1000 and get a Gardner Exhaust.

I saw another 70 442 at BJ Las Vegas, heavily promoted as a Thorton Car, the complete interior was wrong.

As I said I dont know if some of these errors are the customer or the restoration shop. I guess the guy paying the bills has the choice in what they want on their car.

Paul

[RM Schimel]

Paul,

I think the problem with Elliott Jaffe’s Twilight Blue ragtop and this current Matador red ragtop being discussed is there are just too many questions about legitimacy. The discriminating collector will only pay heavily for a car that has a completely solid pedigree & history and clearly these cars did not.

RM