2 Yenkos and a ZL-1 at B-J

[Les Quam]

Charley,
I chose not to start another thread because unless Jim elects to repost what he has already posted the thread is a waste of time? I can't think of a reason he would rewrite everything all over again after all the abuse he received the first time? He is the person with the first hand information not me. My ONLY intention in discussing the other car was to prevent another prospective buyer from getting screwed. It actually matters to me when I see people get screwed in this hobby. It happens far too much and since no one is going to police our hobby for us it seems to me that leaves it up to us? If we, and I am as guilty as anyone continue to look the other way everyone in this hobby eventually suffer. Just ask any of the honest dealers who frequent this site how hard it is today to overcome the fears newcomers have when buying a high dollar muscle car for the first time? Its always been a tough road for muscle car dealers but each and every time someone buys a rebody or otherwise gets screwed it gets that much harder.

Recently a well known muscle car dealer was selling a 69 Yenko despite the fact the car had passed two sets of judges deeming the engine to be the "born with" engine the dealer still had his doubts based on his experience and things he had heard and put very clearly in his description that he thought it might be a restoration correct or restamped engine. This disclosure thereby allowed prospective buyers to make an INFORMED decision on their own. The dealer could have taken the easy road but instead took the high hard road making it that much harder to sell the car. My point is not everyone in this hobby takes the easy road and many care about unknown buyers and their integrity.

In regard to this thread I was wondering out loud if there was any desire on anyones part to gather the information in a coherent form and send it along to BJ. I doubt if the information was presented properly that BJ would ignore it? I would be happy to prepare an affidavit and send it along to BJ free of charge if I could get some help?

In regard to your "be an adult remark". I am very happy still thinking and acting like a kid. The thing about kids is they still believe in right and wrong and that we can make the world a better place. Imagine that?

[PeteLeathersac]

How could BJ or any auction house ever truly confirm the authenticity of any car and it's sale day components also why would they ever put themselves into this legally vulnerable position?.

What they can easily do at the very least is include the whole Vins w/ any and all advertising of vehicles listed for their upcoming sales also deny entry of cars who's Vins aren't supplied in enough time for them to list these Vins at least two weeks prior to or whatever time preceeding the sale date seems fair enough to allow prospective buyers to do their due diligence..


~ Pete

[PhilS]

That sounds good and it's something they can actually do without too much trouble on their part. There's alot of info on forums like this one (none better though) that anyone can access. If people choose not to research a purchase then who can they blame. I think that buying most collectibles is probably hazardous. Especially when the money gets big.

[Les Quam]

No auction house that deals in this kind of volume could reasonably be expected to authenticate their consignments. It is simply impossible. However when known information surfaces what should we do? I realize Gary is ABSOLUTELY not trying to deceive anyone. According to this thread he is very forthcoming about it. I am just wondering if we have some responsibility to alert prospective buyers at BJ if we can provide information like Chuck has in his possession which seems to leave no room for doubt?

Can anyone argue that each time someone sells a rebody to a customer without full disclosure that it is bad for us all? Year before last a new buyer bought a three quarter of a million dollar Ford at BJ that although it was real was not as represented. The buyer learned his car was actually worth about 200K and was furious so instead of building a 50 car collection that he planned on he is done with muscle cars. Is this good for all of us who own muscle cars?? Or is it better to continue to look the other way?

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
No auction house that deals in this kind of volume could reasonably be expected to authenticate their consignments. It is simply impossible. However when known information surfaces what should we do? I realize Gary is ABSOLUTELY not trying to deceive anyone. According to this thread he is very forthcoming about it. I am just wondering if we have some responsibility to alert prospective buyers at BJ if we can provide information like Chuck has in his possession which seems to leave no room for doubt?

Can anyone argue that each time someone sells a rebody to a customer without full disclosure that it is bad for us all? Year before last a new buyer bought a three quarter of a million dollar Ford at BJ that although it was real was not as represented. The buyer learned his car was actually worth about 200K and was furious so instead of building a 50 car collection that he planned on he is done with muscle cars. Is this good for all of us who own muscle cars?? Or is it better to continue to look the other way?

[/ QUOTE ]

No auction house is going to put that much effort in identifying contravercial cars simply because they are greedy money pigs (IMO). Why openly disclose and potentially lose 100K in commissions on one sale?

Having said that, I do believe they have a (ready for this Steve) fiduciary duty to inform and/or educate potential buyers on some of the crap that is going on as well as identifying what are some of the things you should look out for.

[Stuart Adams]

I understand all points of view. The seller should be as forthcoming as possible, the buyer should be as wise as possible, but after all this is an auction. BJ should not inspect cars, potential buyers should. Heck they are posted on the website for 4-6 mo. prior to the auction. You can dig up info on a interested car if you really want to. I know we are all trying to protect the field and that's great, but ultimately its Buyers Beware.

Heck 2 yerars ago I was interested in a 68 Yenko Colin bought. I dug up who restored the car, called him, found out previous owners, etc. Lazy guys with big bucks buying "numbered so called cars" are getting what they deserve if they don't investigate.

[firstgenaddict]

A fool and his money are soon parted... if you don't have the knowledge then find someone who does!

[Stuart Adams]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand all points of view. The seller should be as forthcoming as possible, the buyer should be as wise as possible, but after all this is an auction. BJ should not inspect cars, potential buyers should. Heck they are posted on the website for 4-6 mo. prior to the auction. You can dig up info on a interested car if you really want to. I know we are all trying to protect the field and that's great, but ultimately its Buyers Beware.

Heck 2 yerars ago I was interested in a 68 Yenko Colin bought. I dug up who restored the car, called him, found out previous owners, etc. Lazy guys with big bucks buying "numbered so called cars" are getting what they deserve if they don't investigate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me clarify the 68 Yenko #8021. I found the car to be legit, talked to Donahue and some previous owners. Great car and love the car. Glad Colin bought the car and has now taken it to an awesome level. Love the 68 Yenko's.

I was looking into at a 69 Z-28, JL8car in Hawaii that a member turned me on to in 05. I beat every bush until I found Dr. Milton Kim, one of the very important previous owners to verify the car. I took some time and determination and I'm far from a genius or have far less knowledge as 99% of the members here. These people who buy 6 figure cars with no homework, deserve what they get. Heck just come here and ask " Does anyone know this car" and someone here will have the answer - amazing site and the amount of knowledge here is incredible.