Baldwin Motion Documentation

[ed427vette]

Now I would like to reply on the 500 or so Baldwin Chevy Motion cars. I have lived on Long Island my entire life. My family, myself and my friends have lived about 10 minutes away from the Motion shop and many of us have been into the long island racing seen when it was hopping. Now 500 cars are alot of cars. I'm not saying Joel didn't make 500, but we have not seen too many, even back when he was making them. Who could afford them?? Also I don't beleive the 500 number refers to only phase III cars. It could include just the "standard motion package". People who just wanted body mods or minor upgrades. That seems more realistic. You walk into the dealer and say, "can I have that cool looking hood on my Vette". Car goes to Motion. Thats 1 Motion/Baldwin car. Most likely it includes any conversion, Baldwin chevy or other. Also I have met and spoken to Joel on several occasions. I have a close friend who knows him very well. Joel is hot and cold. If he likes you, you're in big. I know he has charged people big dollars just to confirm or deny a car. I also know for a fact that he has done it for FREE, if he likes you. Just the way he is. My good friend says Joel has extensive records. I beleive he does. I also beleive 500 is very very optimistic, more like half are actually Baldwin cars, in my opinion. But who really knows for sure. It would be nice if Loel was more forthcoming but that will never happen. I've met him and he is not a people person. Bottom line. You need good written documentation for anything rare. Prior owner history, all the stuff everyone already knows. Makes the hobby interesting if not frustrating. Problem is big bucks are involved. Good luck.

[JoeC]

There has been a lot of wrong info published about the Motion cars. One example is a book called CHEVELLE SS RESTORATION GUIDE. This book states that 500 1967 427 Chevelles were built by Motion Performance to qualify the car for racing. I have seen one 1967 427 Motion Chevelle in a 1968 magazine but there could not have been 500 built.

[rbernat]

there seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the number of baldwin/motion cars produced.the statements of the cars being too expensive when new is debatable.you could order a standard ss-396 car,be it nova,camaro or chevelle thru baldwin chevrolet and have motion add whatever you wanted while still covered under warranty.you got what your willing to spend. bottom line-all motion cars are not phase threes or even 427's.small block cars were even sold/modified thru b/m.the price of the basic car was listed in their order forms.all you had to do was pick what speed equipment you wanted.i remember a conversation with dave bean about the amount a cars being sold.he had stated that zoning was slow in alloting him cars and that he would have sold much more due to this fact.granted full bore phase three cars were expensive,look at what was ordered!but for every phase three made there were more standard b/m cars produced.and these are the cars that people think are just old hot-rods and not a piece of history.again look at the chevelle posted on e-bay last month.looked like nothing special except for the build sheet with baldwin chev. listed on it.

[sixtiesmuscle]

Are you saying that " standard " Baldwin Motion cars are just "old hot rods" and not pieces of history. How can any 427/454 conversion be any less a part of musclecar history than a Yenko, Nickey, or COPO?

[Edited by sixtiesmuscle (08-27-2000 at 11:51 AM).]

[COPO]

I think for most collectors/enthusiasts the differentiating factor is if the vehicle was sold as a new car through Baldwin Chev w/the Motion mods and has paperwork to back it up. As opposed to a car that was purchased new (stock) and was later modified by Motion. (normally not considered a BM car)

The Phase III cars are certainly the most sought after. Would someone today pay more for a small block Camaro sold new through Baldwin Chev. with Motion added Cal Custom valve covers and a hotter ignition? I know I wouldn't.


[Edited by COPO (08-27-2000 at 01:13 PM).]

[rbernat]

copo,
the question is do these cars qualify as b/m cars.yes they do.they were purchased and modified thru baldwin/motion before changing ownership.not modified at a later date.their collectable value would be higher than a normal 396/375 or z-28 car and also be given a motion verification form from rosen.

[rbernat]

sixtiesmuscle
i dont think you understood my statement.at this time many cars have been purchased with incorrect engines.without any clues(emblems,paperwork,ect)would your first impression be that this is a b/m car or a car hot-rodded in the past.there is no evidence on the cowl tag and if your lucky you might find a build sheet.many cars have been restored to dealer original only to find out somewhere down the line that it was originally a b/m car.