Rebodied cars and do they get certified - Page 8

amuseme · #71 11-10-2005, 05:44 AM

Boy, I'm really enjoying this! Apparently there is no legal description of just what portion of a car makes it "a car". I posted this point before on another site, think it's worth a re-hash.....you can pay a resto. shop to replace each and every panel and it's a "restoration, new or n.o.s. stuff, new work, and new money. Or you take the numbered parts and cut the rest of the "car" away from them (catch that?), and slide in a "body", sorry, " collection of panels" that some uaw workers put together 30-35 yrs ago, new parts,new work, and new money. You simply paid a larger shop after the fact.Please tell me you get it that you can remove the rest of the body from the "juicy parts" instead of removing them from the body!

sYc · #72 11-10-2005, 05:50 AM

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If they are being flipped that often I want a chance to buy, I feel like a poor stepchild now....

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Stuart, they are being flipped like that, but not by members of this site.

Racefan · #73 11-10-2005, 05:52 AM

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Please tell me you get it that you can remove the rest of the body from the "juicy parts" instead of removing them from the body!

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Walking a fine line there.

Can you take your license plate off your LeMans blue 69 Camaro and put them on your Garnet 69 Camaro and drive it? Nope, that would be illegal. Will it work? Yep, until you get caught. Same prinicple applies.

**Charley Lillard** · #74 11-10-2005, 05:52 AM

This will be the 1000 year debate...

amuseme · #75 11-10-2005, 05:56 AM

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I have brought this up elsewhere, but I'll give this example again. This is NOT made up, it is an actual situation in the world today.

Car A (a Yenko Camaro) was found by Collector 1 who determined that it was too far gone to restore. Collector 1 proceeded to purchase the VIN and trim tags off the car and swap them to Car B (plain jane 69 coupe). Collector 1 decided he didn't want anything else off the car and expcted Owner 2 to dispose of what was left. Fast forward to 2005, Car A (real Yenko)is still around and resides with Owner 2 since he never disposed of it. Remember, Car B (plain jane) now has the VIN and trim tags of Car A (real Yenko). Car A (real Yenko) has no tags, BUT does have the hidden VINs which, in a court of law, would make it the official owner of the tags now in Car B (plain jane).

You purchase Car A (real Yenko), restore it and try to title it. Low and behold.....the VIN of your car is assigned now to Car B(plain jane). Legal problems out the wazoo. Why? BECAUSE IT IS WRONG TO SWAP TAGS-- MORALLY, ETHICALLY, AND LEGALLY.

Forget about the rebody issues and all the ancillary crap that is confusing the issue here. If you decide on your own that you want to assign Car B the VIN off of Car A-- you are breaking the law. If you cut every piece of metal out of Car A and replace it but it retains its VIN, you have not broken the law.

What is so hard about this? I am building a 68 Yenko clone. But, I will NOT search out the Magic Mirror trim tag and have a VIN plate made up of some 68 Yenko which has not been found yet. I am not trying to fool anyone. I want the feel and look of a 68 Yenko. When the car is sold in the future, there will be no question if it is real or not. The only thing that I am going to change that may make it misleading to people in the future is to add a BB heater box. That addition is not to mislead, it is for functionality.

For those who don't think swapping tags is wrong. How about if I go ahead and rebuild my 68 using bogus tags and YS# off of one of the KNOWN to be destroyed 68 Yenkos. Would that be fraud? Would you pay BIG$$$$ for that car? Nope, because it isn't real.

[/ QUOTE ] The use of the word bogus killed that point. What's so hard is shown in your post, you say cut all the metal away and the vin is still there so it's real. So the vins are what make it real,yes? So you just replace every thing else and it's still real? It's very hard and not likely to be solved 'tll there is a legal disc. of what exactly makes a car a car....jmho.

Racefan · #76 11-10-2005, 05:58 AM

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This will be the 1000 year debate...

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I agree totally Charlie. However, it is my hope that the beauty in a group like ours is that if I were looking to buy a car that had a "questionable" past....someone would PM me, call me, stop by, or whatever. But they would let me know. We can't police the world, nor should we try. But, we can help those out who are looking for answers and doing thier due diligence on a potential purchase. Right? That is all we can do.

amuseme · #77 11-10-2005, 06:03 AM

Can you take your license plate off your LeMans blue 69 Camaro and put them on your Garnet 69 Camaro and drive it? Nope, that would be illegal. Will it work? Yep, until you get caught. Same prinicple applies.

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Now, if you take the plates AND the vins....

Belair62 · #78 11-10-2005, 06:03 AM

Exactly the type of scenario most people have a funny feeling about......and that is why this is such an interesting subject...and now you look at a car like this and it has COPO Connection certification or even the original paperwork,POP etc....the VIN is correct...and trim is correct and checked back to a Yenko Inventory sheet so it must be real right ? Wrong...so now you buy this car...the old car rears it's ugly head and you are all screwed in one way or another because instead of going thru the ridiculously expensive restoration of a hulk someone chose to go the lazy (or smart) way of throwing the tags on a clean body...how is the guy looking at the car or verifying the car supposed to see this ? I would guess that most people would prefer NOT to own a car like this and thats why it becomes a "secret"...until someone finds the real car hulk that was left behind...if you look at it from a money standpoint...it has to be much cheaper to rebody a car....any restoration guys want to guess at the cost difference between restoring a nasty car with NOS sheetmetal and simply restoring a clean body shell and dropping it on ???

budnate · #79 11-10-2005, 06:08 AM

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I guarantee if people who primarily make up this website sat and thought about it they could name 2-3 dozen cars sold more than twice in a 6-9 month period and at least a dozen people here assoicated as "flippers."

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Greg...I challenge you to find these dozens of cars sold multiple times within 6 -9 months here by flippers here in the past 2 years...

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it may appear that way...we all have our core car/cars that will never be for sale short of a family emergency...the other cars are fun to chase play with and trade or sell and get something else that floats your boat that week..nothing wrong with that..heck it keeps them in circulation that way. anyone have a 86/88 Blue / white top shifter roadster Vette around..got a itch for one this week..

sYc · #80 11-10-2005, 06:12 AM

Really hammers home the point that a certificate is just that, a piece of paper, unless backed up by a bonafide inspection of the car in question. IMO, the only way to avoid making a costly mistake is to hire someone you trust, and knows what to look for.

And yes, would be neat if folks who had information about a possible bogus car would pass it along, but trust me, that is a very slippery slope. Been there, done that.

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