Original vs Correct,, New Body Acceptable?

[68TopStock]

SS427,

Those warbird restorations are in a league of their own. We must realize new components are replacing the originals due to safety concerns, and strict enforcement of the FAA airframe inspection standards. People die when components fail in these old birds.

Have you been up to Mary Jane field? A number of nice a/c reside there. Have a friend restoring an A25 for the AF Museum. Mustang round up is fun, and they are not ferds!

All said and done, the nostalgia bug hits all generations, we are fortunate to have such an active and interesting hobby with our cars.

[MotownMadman]

68topstock, I would hope you are not referring to me as having a motive of trying to get a certain way of thinking accepted, I am not for a rebody as a general rule, I have restored these cars twenty years and never done one yet. I am more for getting everyone on one way of thinking to weed out the people who are decieving others with fraudulent cars. The way to stop that type of activity is to make everyone aware of how to make the fraud more difficult, such as the discussion about photographs in one of my earlier posts. Some good arguments have been made here on both sides of the issue, for and against, rebodys are going to happen no matter what, but if people are aware the only person who will end up owning one is someone who knows they own one or knows they are buying one. Awareness is the key.
Motown. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[68TopStock]

MM,

I was not referring to anyone, just voicing my opinion. I hope you realize that when a body is switched, it is not the car it was. What happens to the "leftover" car body?
Anyone care to admit to what they are storing for future use?

I have heard of valuable cars undergoing this process, and the equally hard to understand "cowl clip". It is just that eventually the car will be sold as the "real deal", when it was orginally a 6 cylinder car body, with its own unique serial numbers stamped on it. Any changes to the VIN stamping and I think it would be considered fraudulant, to a reasonable thinking individual. Hasn't this been covered before?

How many of the restorers who have conducted a rebody, have admitted it, and signed an affadavit to this effect to go along with the cars paperwork? If not, why? It seems this is becoming an accepted practice and so common, what is there to fear? [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

[MotownMadman]

68TS
If you notice through this entire thread I have not taken either opinion, for or against, as I welcome an honest opinion from everyone on this issue, that tends to be difficult if the person giving the opinion feels like they are on the defensive. Would I personally own a rebodie? At this point it has never happened as a car important enough in history has not came my way yet with the body in such a condition that I had to make the decision that the only way to save it would be give it a new body. Maybe its because I am real good at what I do and I have never yet found a body I couldnt fix. But the average person if having to pay for the countless hours of work I have put into certain cars would be cost and logic prohibitive. So I suppose it does come back to money. I havent faced it because I havent had to pay for the work, if I did there are some cars that I may have considered for a new body. Thats honesty. We are never 100% sure of what we are going to do until we are in whatever situation it may be thats calls for a tough decision. Is a rebodie acceptable? For me I guess the answer would be no. For others? Thats back to freedom of choice. You and I may never find it acceptable, but we will still have to accept it for what it is, reality. We love our cars. Whenever you combine love with money there are going to be problems. Most people will do anything they have to in order to keep something or someone they love, then add protecting the bank account on top of that? With those elements, collector cars will do doubt get different bodies, so for the guys who dont believe in it all we can do is protect ourselves by being aware of it. Many people in this hobby are not even comfortable talking about it, as long as its kept quiet the more likely it is to happen. Discussions like this get people talking about it, thinking about it, and bringing it out in the open where it is less likely to happen without someone knowing about it. The wonders of communication. By the way, beautiful car you own, keep the history alive.
Thanks,
Motown [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[70 copo]

Motown,

Amazed... at how long a simple issue like this goes on and on. In my opinion when ANY significant part of the car has to be replaced - it is no longer the car that came off the assembly line. There are also levels of comfort with individual owners and buyers. They have to decide what they will accept and buy. The buyer and the market drives who pays what - and what is saleable.

Gentlemen, this is what we all collectively call a "restored" car.

As for the FBI and legal issues.. attempting to beat this dead horse further is like trying to regulate rules for the bedroom. The goverment has tried this and look stupid each time. As for cars, the FBI historically had a track record of coming after the large scale late model chop shops- where the "real" money was - and lately the salvage title and multiple hidden VIN stampings on late model autos, used car crash histories, and insurance tracking-has really made this a non issue with them. Now the issue today is the tracing of stolen parts and the export of stolen cars and parts. Back to the old stuff - (on a camaro as an example) As every one knows the lower front fire wall attaches at a spot welded seam in the front of the floors. Further, the top of the cowl is also spot welded at the top of the body cowl in the front. As I recall you could order almost every part of the body from GM except a very few body parts. As I remember the critical ones that you could not get was the front cowl and the D/S tunnel, Most other parts could be ordered from GM-new. As an example-on most cars prior to salvage titles there was big money to be made when a car got hit hard in the rear. The practice was to find a donar car and "clip" the entire rear. When these cars began to fail after repair- is when the goverment got in to the act and regulated rebuilders with salvage titles. But now hear this... the goverment has not been completly out of the picture. As many may recall goverment ordered scrappage programs have been operating in several states for quite some time to allow industry to buy back pollution credits.
this legislation also had an additional side effect of further drying up the old car parts market which some of us call a "parts car". It is up to the buyer and the seller to police this hobby. Bottom line buyers need information if the seller is deceptive,or the work on any part of the restored car is shoddy. Again buyer beware. [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[toner]

?? The value of 2 restored cars. Supercar A has all major body panels replaced and repainted, it no longer has original sheet metal. Supercar B was cut at the A pillar and where the floor meets the cowl, then has a rust free body attached, car B now has factory built original sheet metal, would it not be more correct then one with replaced indivdual panels?
toner

[sixtiesmuscle]

NO!

[T Billigen]

I second that!!!!

[COPO PETE]

I kind of view it as if a car was human. If a person is sick or gets in an accident, and gets a new heart, eyes, kidney, whatever.... does he or she become the person that the parts came from...... Nope! I think it is real important to take lots of picture as well. When I restore a car, I take pictures all the way along. So in the event I sell it, the buyer can see how good it was, or how bad it was. And if it was bad, they need to see it was fixed properly. I don't go for restamps as I feel you are really trying to fool someone. I've had offers to restamp stuff on my cars, but when you own a collection of any size, if you get caught restamping, everything you own becomes a question mark. I've put "IF" wheels on a car till I could find "XT's" It's interesting because it has happened where someone is contacted because they found the original motor for their car..... and it's supposedly already in the car. Wow, that car came with two motors!!!!
Peter [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[shor]

I think Pete is trying to say that cars have souls!