Fake Protect-O-Plates...

[RamAirDave]

Hylton: Now that I think about it, I think you meant taking a look behind the firewall rather than the tag itself.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Hylton: Now that I think about it, I think you meant taking a look behind the firewall rather than the tag itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. My point is that there are some things you can do without tearing a resto apart to ensure you are getting what you think you are getting.

With respect to a removed trim tag, you can make the engine side look un-touched, but it's pretty hard to make the caulking on the other side look 35 years old when the tag has been off the car.

There are also a few body stamp dates scattered throughout the car that can be verified provided the seller is willing to let you remove a few interior parts using a screwdriver and socket.

[PeteLeathersac]

Here's some interesting reading that arrived w/ my monthly online newsletter from the Kovels Antique group.. Change the names and items involved and you've got pretty much the same as what we're going through here in the car world!.


"...LOOK OUT FOR FAKES!

Restoration, embellishment and just plain fakes have been known in the world of collecting since ancient times. It is said that fake Greek coins tempted eager Roman collectors. High-end English and American shops are nervously waiting for more news about the latest major furniture-faking story. Did John Hobbs, a well-known high-priced English antiques dealer, really sell fake furniture as his restorer, Dennis Buggins, now claims? Buggins said he made pieces for Hobbs that he thought would be sold as new, but that Hobbs sold them as antiques--one table for as much as $2.4 million.
We are surprised that some of Hobbs' clients don't seem to care if a piece they bought is old or new. And even more surprising, the decorators who bought and sold the furniture evidently claimed no responsibility for authenticity. In the 19th century, fakers liked to re-carve round tilt-top tables into "wine-tasting" tables with added carved circles to outline the wine bottles. And it was acceptable to make an extra chair for a dining room set by using parts of an old chair and adding replica pieces. But these efforts were simple compared to the Hobbs-Buggins story. The supposed fakes were assembled from quality antiques with large, aged, wooden surfaces and pleasing shapes. One set of small tables from the Hobbs showroom is pictured in the New York Times. The tables were apparently made from two ends of a dining table and then embellished with antique cameos set in frames.
Many of Hobbs' expensive pieces seem to be fantasies, not copies, and many were sold with a fabricated written history of past ownership and workmen. Dealers, decorators and auction houses are now waiting to learn if lawsuits will result for any who handled the merchandise. A sad week for collectors. First a cloud over the merchandise sold by a top English dealer, then word that the crystal skulls Harrison Ford is seeking in his new Indiana Jones movie have been 19th-century fakes all along!..."


~ Pete

[Hylton]

2.4 million for a fake wooden table eh? Excuse me while I go try and find my old router...

[Vettefinderjim]

There is no substitute for 'OWNER HISTORY' If in doubt, JUST SAY NO.

[67rscoupe]

[ QUOTE ]
stop, stop, STOP!...if you want to read a novel on wagonmans Vert and all that goes along with it go to Team Camaro and read on for hours about this vert and the why's and what for's . I wasnt going to say a word hopeing Mr Wagon could control himself, Mr. Wagon there are forums for people that like to debate, going on for days on your car and associated paperwork again will be to painful.

very nice car, and it ends there.

[/ QUOTE ]

i remember that...i found it.....

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showth...28+convertible

[Les Quam]

Hylton,
Where are the stamps you are referring to that can be accessed with a screwdriver?

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
Hylton,
Where are the stamps you are referring to that can be accessed with a screwdriver?

[/ QUOTE ]

Every Chevrolet body panel will have a date stamp. Doors have dates stamped on them which are visible when you remove the door panels. Look for a 3 digit stamp such as H23. The key is the "23" which will represent the 23rd week of the year the door was made. Both doors should have similar dates. The trunk lid date will also have a date that is similar to the doors. It is located on the underside support, usually in the middle of the trunk lid. Sometimes the jack decal is covering it. Rocker panel dates may be visible if you remove the door sills but like many areas, paint may make the date unreadable.

Another important date stamp to look at is the back seat brace. Rarely is this changed during a rebody. This is the piece that looks like 2 letter Y's together. Remove the back seat. The date will be stamped on the passenger side brace.

If the car is a project, then you might want to look at the quarter panel and tail panel date stamps as well. The quarter panel date stamps are located in the top corner of the trunk gutter and the tail panel date stamp is located on the outside area that is usually covered up by the rear bumper.

The Firewall also has a date below the heater fan which is near the partial VIN stamp. It's usually very clear.

These dates are stamped when the piece is manufactured, not when Fisher assembled the body so be aware that they will always be earlier than the date on the trim tag.

Now if someone has changed a body panel using a part from an original car, then obviously the date will not jive with the rest of the car.

The key here is to ensure what you are getting is what you are expecting. If someone tells you it's a rebody, or a resto using repro or replaced parts, checking dates will not be so important.

If a seller however tells you the car is a low mileage, original body paneled car, the asking price will be high and you need to be sure you are getting an honest car.

Spend some time getting as much car history as possible. Who owned it when and what they did with it when they owned it, checking dates on the car (parts, panels) and evaluating that information against what the seller is telling you will give you good background for making a purchase decision.

Hope others here will feel free to add locations of date stamps they have seen on GM cars. Hopefully someone with some spare time, will post a few pictures of panel dates.

[Hylton]

Thanks to Kevin K for the following pictures!

Trunk Lid from 67 Camaro showing 44th week:


Quarter panel from same car showing same week as trunk lid:


Right front fender from same car showing 42nd week:


Left front fender showing 38th week:


Seat rail with date stamp:

[wagonman]

good information!

it's info with pictures like this that will help in the sale of legit cars.....

possibly supercedeing any false paperwork or fake pop's...