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[Supercar_Kid]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that back then anyone looking to buy a new Yenko car even knew what a Motion or Nickey car was.

[/ QUOTE ] I understand where you're coming from Ed, and I don't want to speak for them, but I think Marty Schorr and Joel Rosen would both beg to differ. The Motion cars were undeniably well advertised, and sure all of this was well before my time, but I think if you were in the market for an ultimate Chevrolet 427 performer back in the late 60's, you'd have read up a little on the subject before plunking down the kind of cake it took to buy one. My Dad was living in Pittsburgh in 68-69 and not only visited Yenko Chevrolet in the heyday but also knew quite well what a Baldwin-Motion car was. All it took was a trip to the newsstand. CARS magazines weren't hard to come by back then, or even today for that matter, and Marty's articles and Joel's 11 second guarentee made the Baldwin-Motion connection seem unstoppable. My father unfortunately didn't have the coin to buy one of these new supercars, but he did buy a brand new 68 Chevelle that almost immediately received a grafted on Motion influenced hoodscoop and a new set of mag wheels on redline tires. He did all of this to his brand new car going on nothing but what he'd read in magazines, and recognizing the bada** look the Motion cars had. A few years down the road he had a 69 Nova SS that he performed similar mods on, including sidepipes, Yenko Deuce inspired striping and a Motion hoodscoop. IMO, if you lived anywhere near Pittsburgh or Long Island NY in 68-69 and could read, you knew what a Motion and a Yenko was. Understanding how they came to be, and what they would become is another matter altogether... I agree with you Ed, we should enjoy these cars anyway we can, which is what makes the drag racing, and no judging format of the SCR the place to do it. It was nice meeting you at SCR6 and an interesting coincidence us both having the J-town connection. Looking forward to doing some more bench racing at SCR7. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

[sYc]

Part of which tuner car you choose depended on where you lived. Growing up in southern Missouri, we listened to WLS radio out of Chicago, thus knew about Nickey. But, because of Marty and his ads, I was well aware of Motion as well. I am sure I read about some of the other tuners, but those are the two that I remember most. But, if there had been a Chevy dealer in town who sold Yenkos, then I am sure that would have made a differnce. Instead, there was a Ford dealer across from the house, so I still remember the first Boss 302 and 429 to roll off of the transport.

And, the horsepower thing was very much a part of the game. Especially with Chevy. The ZL-1 5 HP more then the L-72, the L-78 going from 425 in the Vette to 375 in other models, etc. Back then, well, still today, a lot of buyers go with the engine boasting the highest HP rating, taking the dealers word that the numbers are correct. Some things never change.

[55chevy]

Absolutely man. I can't wait for SCR7. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

[hvychev]

Ed very well said. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

I would agree with this. I met a guy that is almost 50 years old and is not a die hard but does like old cars. He grew up on Long Island till he was about 21 years old and when I asked him about Baldwin/Motion he had no clue. The way he put it was there was 4 million people living on long Island so who knows. I also met a guy that actually bought a 69 Douglass/Canonsburg sold new Yenko Camaro back in 1970 used at Fencl Tufo Chevrolet and bought the car because it had a 427 and it was a cool color.(ralley green) The guy ended up keeping the car till the early 90's and still did not know who Yenko was or what the big deal was surrounding them. I made a thread about this subject a while back.

I agree with sYc about the Nickey thing. Because of the advertising that Nickey did on WLS radio back then you could ask almost any older person from the area about Nickey and they all know the Nickey jingle that was played constantly on the radio back then.

[Supercar_Kid]

[ QUOTE ]
Part of which tuner car you choose depended on where you lived.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree 100%, I'm from Pittsburgh, and 'till this day Yenko is the buzzword at the car shows. I'm sure it's the same way for Nickey near Chicago, Motion near Long Island, Harrell near Kansas City, etc. etc. I think the majority of people who bought a Yenko off of the Canonsburg lot had a pretty good understanding what those little R/W/B crests meant on the fenders. Otherwise they wouldn't have been so readily stolen to become keepsake mementos, or removed to confuse suspecting racers. I've even heard that BKH's old Fathom Green/Black stripe car was so equipped because the original owner wanted the stripes to "disappear" at night, so it made for easier roping of unsuspecting street racers. Let's also not forget what Ed Hedrick and Dick Harrell did to promote the Yenko name. They were at the drags every weekend tearing up the competition with a big Yenko crest on their doors and getting their pictures in the papers, that's why Yenko paid them $$$ to wear the name, same as Nickey paid for their radio spots. The Yenko name didn't just become synonomous with hi-performance since the 90's, it's something that has been instilled in anyone who was ever around a Yenko car when it was new. Sure there are exceptions, but ask friends or neighbors about original Yenko owners and their cars, the story is always the same "that was one runnin' SOB!" I probably just feel that way because I'm from Pittsburgh, where the Yenko legend is still alive and well. I'm sure you're partial to Nickey Frank, because of your locale. You could drive around Pittsburgh with a Nickey decal on the back and get far less questions about it than you would in a Chicago suburb, the same goes for Yenko out there I'd imagine, people just aren't drawn to it like they are here. But I'll argue that both dealers were well known in their day, or we wouldn't still be talking about them today, JMHO. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

[camarojoe]

Personally, i can't see how any true "car guy" living on the East coast in the late 60s-early 70s could not have heard about Motion. They advertised HEAVILY in nearly every east coast based magazine, and every other feature car was a car from Motion... they had the supercar club, etc etc..and had WAY more widely distributed advertising than Nickey, Berger,Yenko etc...Frank, you say Nickey was well known... yeah, that would be true in Chicago and close surrounding areas... but I believe Motion cars were known in a far wider area of the US due to the CARS, Speed and Supercar, etc. magazine articles and ads. As SC Kid stated, our dad and all his car buddies who were in their late teens-early 20s, living in the Pittsburgh area during the lates 60s-early 70s were VERY aware of Baldwin/Motion, even if they had never seen an actual Motion car or had gone to NY. This was due to the fact that they were advertised on the inside cover of all the cool car mags of the day. Yenko didnt advertise on a national level nearly as much, but was well known simply because of its proximity to them, much like Nickey was well known in the Chi-town area. Just like today, advertising was what got the cars known outside of the local area of the dealer, and I don't think anyone had more widespread advertising than Motion. Of course this is jmo, as i wasn't "there" either, just going by local folklore, etc. Around here, most 50-something car guys know the names Yenko, and Baldwin Motion very well, but many give you a puzzled look when you talk about Nickey, Dana, or Berger. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

[camarojoe]

Funny, lil' bro and I were typing essentially the same thing at the same time... Double teaming on ya Frank! ( think we BOTH need to go do some work we're actually getting PAID for! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]

[55chevy]

Joe I definitly agree with you that Motion was the most widely known Supercar builder. Worldwide even..not just USA. Look at how many Motion cars were exported out of the country.. I wish I knew how many exported Motion cars still exist and what they are.. I sure would like to see a huge full color hardbound book featuring EVERY SINGLE Motion car ever made.. That would keep me drooling for hours. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[ORIGLS6]

[ QUOTE ]
And, the horsepower thing was very much a part of the game. Especially with Chevy. The ZL-1 5 HP more then the L-72, the L-78 going from 425 in the Vette to 375 in other models, etc. Back then, well, still today, a lot of buyers go with the engine boasting the highest HP rating, taking the dealers word that the numbers are correct. Some things never change.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's why there were so many "435" HP Corvettes on the road! MUCH more power than the lowly L-88 at only 430 HP! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif[/img]

I guess there are a few advantages to growing up in the midwest because I too was aware of all the major tuner Dealers during the '60s and '70s. We ran the local dragstrip and devoured all the magazines we could get our hands on. I've always been aware of Nickey, Dana, B/M, Yenko, Harrell, etc. Not that I'm proud of my advanced age but it sure was fun growing up with all this stuff and now seeing the renewed interest, I get to do it all over again! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/[/img]

[whitetop]

I think the special dealer/tuner cars made today are going to be even harder to keep track of in the future because of the sheer number of them being built. Also they are not being as advertised as much. Most just have a little 1/4 section in one of the mags. I've been trying to save up all the magazines with Mustangs being specially built today and I have literally lost track. Saleen, Roush, Sean Hyland among a zillion others. Every month in the Mustang mags there are 4-5 "special" limited production cars being offered. Heck, Roush is coming out with a new car every month comemerating some obscure event or person.

However, I don't think these cars will be as high priced as a a ZL-1 is today because people are buying these cars and keeping every scrap of paper and taking photos and notes. One of the rules the Antiques & Collectibles crowd goes by is never buy somthing for an investment if it has the world collectibleon the box because 10,000 other people are doing the same thing. 25 years from now these cars will be plentiful because people are buying them for future collectibility and are not driving them in the winter, low miles and if they are modifying them further are keeping all the parts they take off. Just read a story where a guy bought a Roush and bought 3 sets of extra tires, seats and other wear items so he can replace them in the future with the correct parts when needed.

I doubt too many guys did this when buying the Yenko's, Motion cars, Hemi Darts or ZL-1's.