Judges

[StealthBird]

Well, let's take a stripped 71 T-37 with a 455 HO, and then we have a car that a friend of mine owned, a bare bones 71 GTO post coupe, 455 HO, dog dish hubcaps, and a painted top. The color combo would make a billy goat puke, but it was light, and fast. So where would the weight difference be? The Endura front bumper is all I can come up with between the T-37 and GTO, and by 1971, the Endura nose wasn't very big. If the 455 HO was ordered, a HD battery and HD cooling would be in both cars, so no weight differences there. And I would still give the nod to the GTO because it could have Ram Air, which of course you could not get with the GT-37 or T-37.

Overall, most GT-37's and T-37's were purchased as a cheap alternative to the GTO, with cheaper insurance premiums, and very few were built like Dan Jensen's 455 HO car. But there are oddball 70 RAIV GTO's and 71 GTO 455HO's out there with no options, perhaps ordered by a dealership to go racing.

Hey, who hosed up this thread? It's gettin' hard to read!

[442w30]

So what you're saying is that a dealership ordered its race car without frills?

That's an anomoly. 99.9% of GTOs ordered were not like that.

I just think people (not necessarily you) are too quick to say things about cars in the era that aren't really true, such as "they'll build it any way you want" or "that 426-S Polara 4-door was ordered by the FBI".

[Steve_Hoog]

I did qualify that with "if you knew the right people". Just to be guessing from the research I did and the old line workers I've talked to, maybe 2 or 3 % of the cars were handled with special attention. But that is certainly just a guess.

I engineer would walk the line next to the car, making sure the specific instructions were carried out or the car was removed from the line and taken to engineering by said person.

Both the Knafel cars that were involved in that RAV debate had such treatment.

[StealthBird]

You know, I'm usually the first to scoff at the oddball "fish" story, but as the internet has grown, I've learned to keep an open mind. I would bet there were probably 20-30 1970 RAIV GTO's made with no options. As for standard 70 GTO's, probably 1 or 2 with no options. The RAIV was billed as a semi-race engine, and I'm sure more than a few people ordered one to race. Until the advent of the internet, we never would have heard about some of these cars unless they appeared in a magazine, at a national show, or you knew someone that had one.

I saw a very rare 70 W-30 4-speed car a few years ago that was a post coupe, W-27 rear, with absolutely no options. It even had a heater delete. Someone definately ordered this car to drag race.

Then there's the story of those 6 factory lightweight 65 GTO's...

[Steve_Hoog]

And probably so many things we will never know about.

[gtaa9]

There are alot of FREAK muscle cars out there that we dont know about untell one pops up some were. Theses are the cars that I love weather it be a Ford,GM or Chry.

[DaJudge]

I don't know about high 13's for a RA IV Judge my old black 70 RA IV Judge ran 12.95's - 13.2's (with cheaters) at Darlington Dragway back in the day it held two records at the track . All verified by the original owners son and best friend.

[gtaa9]

I have some books that say when the Judge was new it ran high 13's.Now todays pure stock drags a 70 Judge 400 RAlV are doing low 13's.Whats the differance from 1970 and today?I realize the tires are better,parts are better ect.

[GTO_DON]

I still have the track log from the original owner of my old 70 RAM IV JUDGE M21 trans and 433 posi! In one years time He went from 14.02 [3 days old] to an 11.98@ 118 mph! With installed headers,recurved distributor,ported heads and 7 inch goodyear slicks [d-5 compound] but still running the original intake and carb!!! Launched it at 6000 and flat shifted it at 6400!!! I have the slips from capital raceway in maryland. To answer your questions about them running better now is back then you launced off a concrete pad!! unlike today.

[JLP]

The T-37 w/455HO had only 1 required option. Dual exhaust. Nothing else was required in '71 when the 455HO was ordered.

Endura front is heaver than chrome bumper/fiberglass front. Hood is longer. More deadener w/GTO. Carpets w/GTO not w/T-37 unless ordered. Rear stabailizer bar. Chrome exhaust tips. Hood insulation. Ram Air was optional on 455HO in '71 so if it had ram air all of that weighed. 3750 or so was what T-37 was supposed to weigh. GTO's were heavier, closer to 4000. I'll put the T-37 (of mine) against any '71 455HO GTO. Got to get it running first, though. Since I only got 1 run back in '71 and it was pretty squirrely but mph'd at 104 with the WRONG (read less) cam, that ain't bad with junk for the trip in the car. Ahhhh, enough. Outa here.